After the Oldhammer Weekend

Orlygg

Member
It may seem a little premature of me to be making this suggestion now, but we really need to think what is going to happen AFTER the Oldhammer Weekend is over. By this I don't mean nurse that hangover and shoulder the lead to head home! I mean, what are we going to do to ensure that the Oldhammer Phenomenon continues its momentum? Afterall, there is going to be a lot of buzz about the internet concerning the event and that is something we will need to capitalise on.

Gaj (weasil) and I had a long conversation last night, by conversation I mean Garth was coherant and articulate and I rambled on and went off on tangents, but despite my waffling we got a few things agreed. WE NEED ANOTHER OLDHAMMER EVENT PLANNED to direct new comers towards. But when and where are we to do this is what needs to discussed here.

Obviously, another event at the Foundry could be a possibility! If they will have us again! But how many times a year? And what about a a presence at a major wargaming show such as Salute? We mooted between us the possibility of running a big scenario, such as Lichemaster!

Right, discuss!
 

Harry

Moderator
I think its a good idea.
"I'm dreaming of a lead Christmas". :grin:

I also think doing something at Salute would be cool ... if only to get me off my arse and down to salute next year.

If we don't make an effort to get together we some of us may struggle to get a game in from one year to the next. :grin:
 

Erny

Member
Darn it, I knew I was supposed to do something last night. Came home to kid related nonsense and plain forgot.

More events is the only way to go, doing something is the only way this stays living and relevant rather than nostalgic navel gazing.

Salute is probably a must, a joint project would be great. Another thought would be local events, I know with three Oldhammerers in Cambridge and others including yourself Orlygg in the East Anglian area, that a Cambridge/East Anglian meet up is readily on the cards. I believe there are Yorkshire and Hampshire factions forming and doing things too.

Maybe one Salute idea would be to have the different regions get together and plan forces, any outside those regions either virtually join one or could come along as free lances.
 
Assuming the August event is the success I hope it's going to be, how about at the very least an annual get-together at Foundry for the "main event" interspersed with ad-hoc events throughout the year? I would suggest that very soon after August we get a date sorted for "Oldhammer 2014" at Foundry so that we have plenty of time to plan games, get figures painted etc.
 

Orlygg

Member
Great minds think alike! I think that Salute is a must and would be a great experience for all concerned. A joint effort would be fantastic, board, scenery, minis, scenario.. etc! As Erny said, we certainly need to do a Cambridge/East Anglia semi regular event. Really, we just need a venue and date to get this one going. As for Oldhammer 2014? I really hope this is a possibility. What about these for possible puns for such an event? Slaves to leadness? The Lost and the Leaded? Or even, The Terror of the Leadmaster?
 
I agree, but just to reiterate - does everyone think that Foundry should be the basis for the main annual event, given its facilities and its central location? Not forgetting its historical associations. Assuming everything goes as planned in August of course.
 

Asslessman

Member
I really hope to attend to Oldhammer day 2014, "Terror of the leadmeister" is definitely a brillinat catch !

Salute not being in the field of possibility for me, I was thinking a lower level. I may be slightly off topic but I think this can be relevant. I am (like many people of this comunity) living in an oldhammer desert and my only link with the community is this forum and the many blogs surrounding it.
I believe starting small but viable local oldhammer communities could help to :
1) get people to know what we do
2) give new blood and avoid the navel gazing
3) make people less intimidated ;)
Another point is that groups may be more likely to attend to bigger events as oldhammer day or salute than a lonesome lad lost far away.
When I go to my hobby shop, I do sometimes see people over 30 with old lead and I'm pretty sure amongst them some may have the will to share but don't want to go through the hassle of organising things.
I don't mean to go as far as making a french oldhammer day (bad idea) but helping buil a few local communities which could meet and emulate to go to UK once in a while is definitely something worthy.
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
Personally I don't like the idea of Foundry being the 'center', getting too close to one company isn't in the spirit of the thing. I would prefer a main event that allowed different traders to participate. Kind of feels like they're trying to hijack the thing to be honest. That and it's a huge trek. Gearing up for a thing at Salute - probably the biggest wargaming event of the year, yeah...

Huge displays of archeogaming might be nice, but it's not really the heart and soul of Oldhammer and may well be off-putting to some. We've had discussions about elitism and the problems that has with growing the community, not that I'm personally interested in that either way, but worth baring in mind. Coops bring-and-battle RT 10-man unit has a lot to commend it as a show-game as it's very inclusive, but I imagine very demanding of the GM. Perhaps see what happens at the Foundry event and use that to see what works.
 

Orlygg

Member
Photographic or even video footage of the Oldhammer Weekend will go a long way to attracting people. Hence why we need to promote things afterward. When people can actually 'see' what we do I am sure they will feel less intimidated. As for Steve's comment, the Foundry really is the spiritual home of Oldhammer, the Ansell connection is enough to support that, and the fact the Ansells invited us and made this all possible. Without them, we'd be in some church hall in the midlands. I can also see Zhu's point about the 'meaning' Oldhammer. However, a great number of members of our community are archaeogamers who want to play old school GW games. In our discussion last night, Gaj and I talked about perhaps making more of our blog brands at a future event to diversify this from Oldhammer. The trouble is, with Oldhammer meaning different things to different people we cannot hope to satisfy everyone. I think that creating a friendly, supportive atmosphere that welcomes narrative based play and is non-judgemental is what we really want to achieve. In my book, that is the spirit of the movement

Returning to the use of the Foundry, we are not really going to find a better venue, are we?
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
Orlygg":2ltanrfl said:
Foundry really is the spiritual home of Oldhammer,

I call bullshit on that :grin:

Yep, Salute is probably a better venue. It will provide more passing interest and a larger exposure. I'm not saying the Foundry event isn't a nice idea, but lets not turn this into being all about them.
 

Orlygg

Member
In my view, Salute is going to be essential as a 'dry run' of the wargaming shows. I for one would like us to have a presence at others in time, doing both archaeogaming and narrative based tables. I mean, Orc's Drift looks fantastic and is just the sort of thing to do as a demo at a show. Just have to twist thantsant's green mutated arm! Of perhaps penning our own scenario, collecting the models, building the scenery etc and going old school hog.
 

Norse

Member
Whilst Nottingham is not exactly easy for to get to (thanks again Harry!), and I personally could get to Salute easier; it is an awful lot less central to everyone.

Certainly, I think there should definitely be a presence at Salute. But it wouldn't then be able to be it's own thing. It wouldn't be 'our' event as it were; so using Salute as the venue for an annual thing doesn't appeal to me. Plus, going to Salute there is all the other gaming going on to divide our time with.

As to whether it should be at Foundry again, assuming all goes well and they're happy to have us back; although it's positioning may be slightly awkward I can't think of another venue that has all of the Foundry's advantages. Lots of dedicated gaming tables, bar, food etc. It's not ideal that only one manufacturer will be selling toys there, but I see that as less important than the gaming for this event to be honest. There are plenty of other shows and shops to buy things from.

If we can find another location where we can have all of those things without being tied to the Foundry then I'd be more than happy with that too, as long as we can make it an Oldhammer event and not just a small part of someone else's show.

There are lots of other wargaming shows going on all year round, perhaps the occasional touring participation/demo game would be a good idea as a bonus. Other things we could do to keep things exciting include other peoples' suggestions for publications and so on. I'd quite like to do a little booklet for a Redwake River Valley-like roleplaying mini-campaign for 3rd edition. I can put it all together quite easily, I'm only hampered by a lack of art.
 
I think there's a couple of issues at play here: what Oldhammer means to different people, and what are the practical and philosophical aspects of running events at certain locations.

In terms of the meaning of Oldhammer and how it will impact on how we take things forward, I think it's actually OK that Oldhammer may mean slightly different things to different people. I know that it started as a reaction to the tournament mentality of contemporary GW gaming, but I think it has grown beyond that - and I don't think that's a problem. It happens to lots of "movements" that are reactions in some sense to an established way of thinking or approach. Take me as an example - I haven't gamed since the 1980s and I've never played a tournament and yet I can still see and support the reasoning behind Oldhammer and its philosophy of gameplay, and the fact that it gives me a reason to "bring out my lead" and take up gaming again, and start to actually paint my figures rather than have them sitting in draws is surely a good thing?

In terms of venues for large-scale Oldahmmer events, I hope you dont mind me saying this Zhu but I think you are worrying unnecessarily about having Foundry as a venue. You mentioned getting too close to one company and about them trying to hijack the event, and not turning it into being all about them. I think you've got entirely the wrong end of the stick there. Having an event at Foundry is not in any sense about being associated with them as a company. They have very generously offered us space to do this, and they are now doing this in general terms to other gaming clubs etc. They have no hidden agenda in doing this - they really are just doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. Hard to believe in this day and age I know. Yes, sure, while people are there they may well buy some Foundry products, but that's not such a big deal is it? I'm pretty confident you won't find any hard sell going on. Personally I do agree with Orlygg that if anywhere is the spiritual home of Oldhammer today from an "archaeogaming/archaeofigures" point of view its Foundry (and Nottingham), but I completely accept that's a personal view which other people who follow Oldhammer may not share, which is absolutely fine. Bottom line though is that by the sounds of it Foundry's facilities are going to be first class, which should be pleasing to everyone involved. If in the longer term we find or establish a venue to equal or better what Foundry offers then all well and good, but it would be a mistake to boycott them just because there is a company involved.

If the staging and venue of an Oldhammer event is proving a bit contentious, how about in the few months leading up to Christmas we concentrate more on building the Oldhammer communities at a local level, through this forum, our blog posts, and by staging local games?
 

lenihan

Moderator
I would be very interested in future plans, e.g. I have a copy of Macdeath and I'd love to see that campaign run in the future... would be well up for collecting appropriate minis for it, perhaps could develop it with others (like the emerging East Anglia hub) as a group project if they were interested? And yes, I think medium term we should be writing our own campaigns/ scenarios for presentation games. I haven't been to a wargames show in ages, and would love to get to one, so I do think that perhaps the twin-tailed comet approach is a good one:

1) Try and get the Foundry meet-up going as a yearly event that can just be our thing for Oldhammer

2) Try and plan over the next year for one presentation at a major wargames show, where we bring a presentation game and just generally spread the word as to what we're about. Salute's in April, right? Gives a decent amount of time to get prepared.
 
Warlord Paul":2ckdcliu said:
I urge you to listen to Zhu's words of caution too, he has a knack of seeing things as they are. Whether or not Wargames Foundry is the spiritual home of Oldhammer (or merely that of our archeo-gaming fundamentalist contingent) is a less important question though than which venue(s) best suit our aims? Salute is a good idea but what do we expect people to do after they see us in action playing Orc's Drift or whatever? The only thing we have to sell is our philosophy (something no two of us agree on by the way) so we must remember that any game played at Salute will reinforce some part of that jumbled philosophy. I say we need a flyer to give away (with Zhu's Oldhammer Contract printed on it) and at least two different ways to play Oldhammer on display.

We may be mixing up a couple of ideas here: on the one hand we are talking about the various ways in which we can promote Oldhammer - and I quite agree that staging something at Salute would be very good for that. But my Foundry point mainly relates to having an established annual event much like what we are intending to do in August.

Warlord Paul":2ckdcliu said:
I could support any East Anglian, Yorkshire or Nottingham event, mainly because accommodation is free for me in those places which cuts the costs considerably. While I would probably not be able to help at Salute I would be able to do something (with Thantsants?) at Vapnartak, Triples, Recon or Fiasco. I know one of the guys that organises Vapnartak, I will talk to him about it when I see him this week.

I could do probably help with Vapnartak. Sorry to say I don't know where or when Triples, Recon or Fiasco happen - if they are within about an hour and a half drive of north Lincolnshire I could possibly help with those too.

Warlord Paul":2ckdcliu said:
:idea: Picking up on Orlygg's idea that some footage might be useful, has anyone thought of starting up an Oldhammer Youtube channel? This would give us another platform from which to preach and it would be a very useful place to archive our videos. They would then be very easy to embed in a blog too. :idea:

Sounds good, but then we run the risk of people actually seeing what we look like, which may be off-putting...hang on though, given that the audience will probably consist of wargamers that should be fine ;)
 

Chico

Member
My 2 cents:

A annual event is a must but I'd like to see some smaller events and have those moved around the country, I'm not at the Oldhammer Day this year dew to insane costs of travel/hotels which i can't justify. So something a bit closer to home or even more central would be great.

As for Saulte i think thats a great idea :)
 
I'm starting to think there may be a bit of location bias creeping in to our choice of venues... ;) and I'm guilty of that too. We could always follow the Partizan model and have a "Partizan" and "The Other Partizan" twice yearly events - one at Salute and one at Foundry?

Anyway, going back to one of my earlier points we probably dont need to dwell on that too much right now - focussing on what we do in the shorter term probably has more priority? In which case simply increasing the number of games running at a local/regional level is at least a starting point. More action less talk! :)
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
Citadel Collector":1kh985gh said:
In terms of venues for large-scale Oldahmmer events, I hope you dont mind me saying this Zhu but I think you are worrying unnecessarily about having Foundry as a venue. You mentioned getting too close to one company and about them trying to hijack the event, and not turning it into being all about them. I think you've got entirely the wrong end of the stick there. Having an event at Foundry is not in any sense about being associated with them as a company. They have very generously offered us space to do this, and they are now doing this in general terms to other gaming clubs etc. They have no hidden agenda in doing this - they really are just doing this out of the goodness of their hearts

Oh come on Steve, they're doing it as part of their marketing strategy in reaching out to gamers. I'm not saying their hearts aren't in the right place, but it's about getting eyeballs and footfall on their business at the end of the day. Exactly the same as GW having play-tables in their shops and running events in warhammer world. If oldhammer simply becomes "that event that happens in Foundry every year" then the association is formed (erm, by association), which will be to the detriment of the thing in my opinion, the idea is to open up the game, not to just move house down the road a bit :)

Yeah, its nice of Foundry to provide space and stuff, but try to look at it from the POV of another miniatures company or three. Would they be letting Fimm set up a stall and sell his Tripods game and Fomorian-Skeksis? Nope...

Let's just look at some of the downsides of using Foundry as a venue:

* No spread of manufacturers
* No trading / bring and buy on old lead and games
* No exhibition space for artwork
* No t-shirt sales :lol:
* Risk of association with a single corporate entity

and the upsides:

* Link to Bryan Ansell
* Nice gaming tables
* Licensed bar
* Free

To my mind it's a trade off, not an inevitability. A vendor-neutral space with multiple-manufacturer presence would be more like the Games Days of yore. Wonder how much the Royal Horticultural Hall costs to hire out...

Warlord Paul":1kh985gh said:
Zhu's words of caution too, he has a knack of seeing things as they are.
Chars!
 

Norse

Member
I second (or third, or fifth or wherever I am in the discussion) the motion for local things too!
 
Zhu Bajie":2dl7lau3 said:
Let's just look at some of the downsides of using Foundry as a venue:

* No spread of manufacturers
* No trading / bring and buy on old lead and games
* No exhibition space for artwork
* No t-shirt sales :lol:
* Risk of association with a single corporate entity
!

OK, I have to admit I wasn't thinking about an annual event in terms of buying and selling, so from that perspective you are right - Foundry quite understandably wouldn't want that going on.

Bottom line is that I'm not saying that Foundry has to be our venue, I'm just saying that unless we can establish a more appropriate alternative longer term it wouldn't make sense to exclude Foundry just because they are a business. And as I mentioned in my last post there's no reason why we can't have more than one large event a year. This is Oldhammer - the place where restrictions come to die... :)
 
Back
Top