Fimm McCool
Member
Just don't mention Pony Wars... 
What is Oldhammer?
- Thread starter Legiocustodes
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Asslessman
Member
Fimm McCool":22qjz90q said:Just don't mention Pony Wars...
We might even be ready for that now...
Zhu Bajie
Member
If I had a copy of Pony Wars I'd be posting about it, but TBH the period isn't all that interesting to me, though the AI rules might be.
The last historicals set I looked at was CIVIL DISORDER - Jim Wallman's 1983 rules for rioting.
Again? We've already done that in a reasonably mature manner here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2162&hilit=pygmies not that it's not worth doing
Yeah Zog. I dunno, I found that one a bit weird, like hearing half a conversation because I don't come across many people asking "is this oldhammer?" (to which I think the answer is 'why does it matter?') Mark if you're reading this stick the blogger comments widget thing on your blog!
The last historicals set I looked at was CIVIL DISORDER - Jim Wallman's 1983 rules for rioting.
Asslessman":3ol7qxx4 said:
Again? We've already done that in a reasonably mature manner here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2162&hilit=pygmies not that it's not worth doing
zoggin-eck":3ol7qxx4 said:
Yeah Zog. I dunno, I found that one a bit weird, like hearing half a conversation because I don't come across many people asking "is this oldhammer?" (to which I think the answer is 'why does it matter?') Mark if you're reading this stick the blogger comments widget thing on your blog!
Erny
Member
Oldhammer is really simple...
..if you can't figure it out then it probably isn't for you.
But more seriously a definition of oldhammer is the last thing we need. It's like constitutions, America wrote theirs down and have to keep amending it and changing it and are frequently bound by it in exceptional circumstances that would require latitude to resolve in a better way. The British way is to have it unwritten. That way it can be what ever we want it to be when we want it to be.
Oldhammer means everything and nothing.
..if you can't figure it out then it probably isn't for you.
But more seriously a definition of oldhammer is the last thing we need. It's like constitutions, America wrote theirs down and have to keep amending it and changing it and are frequently bound by it in exceptional circumstances that would require latitude to resolve in a better way. The British way is to have it unwritten. That way it can be what ever we want it to be when we want it to be.
Oldhammer means everything and nothing.
dieselmonkey
Member
Erny":3dxffl4d said:
I never did get my bear arms. Maybe I have to hunt it myself, using a high powered rifle picked up at the local supermarket?
Asslessman
Member
Zhu Bajie":3hvtwln0 said:Asslessman":3hvtwln0 said:
Again? We've already done that in a reasonably mature manner here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2162&hilit=pygmies not that it's not worth doing
That's what I meant but my failing language skills came in the way...
Erny":3hvtwln0 said:
Indeed, that's why I liked Harry's way of seeing things.
zoggin-eck
Member
Zhu Bajie":3g0fuzou said:Erny":3g0fuzou said:
The meaning is somewhat predefined by it being a portmanteau of the words "old" and [war] "hammer", which is generally what people in a gaming context will understand it as - "Old Warhammer".
Uh, I'm reading it on other forums now to mean 8th edition, since 9th/whatever is currently in limbo. I guess a game from 2010 is old?
Citadel Collector
Moderator
Zhu Bajie":2wgakgmr said:Erny":2wgakgmr said:
The meaning is somewhat predefined by it being a portmanteau of the words "old" and [war] "hammer", which is generally what people in a gaming context will understand it as - "Old Warhammer".
Except of course that meanings of words can and do change.
Blue in VT
Moderator
As I think most of the OG around here know I really dislike these discussions...but all I am willing to say what it means to me...and that is:
Oldhammer is Warhammer 3rd editon WFB or older and Rogue Trader 40k. I don't care what figures you use...though I have a steep bias for the lead from the same period....but the rules and the mentality on which they were built should come from the "Golden Age."
Just because GW doesn't support 4th-8th anymore doesn't make it "oldhammer" IMO....YMMV.
Cheers,
Blue
Oldhammer is Warhammer 3rd editon WFB or older and Rogue Trader 40k. I don't care what figures you use...though I have a steep bias for the lead from the same period....but the rules and the mentality on which they were built should come from the "Golden Age."
Just because GW doesn't support 4th-8th anymore doesn't make it "oldhammer" IMO....YMMV.
Cheers,
Blue
Zhu Bajie
Member
Citadel Collector":30w0g0u3 said:Zhu Bajie":30w0g0u3 said:Erny":30w0g0u3 said:
The meaning is somewhat predefined by it being a portmanteau of the words "old" and [war] "hammer", which is generally what people in a gaming context will understand it as - "Old Warhammer".
Except of course that meanings of words can and do change.
Of course they can, but in this case they haven't, and any change would be constantly fighting the a-priori meaning of the compound whose elements which are readily understood.
Erny
Member
I'd argue that to you oldhammer means as you say old versions of warhammer, with your arbitrary cut off point. You coined the term and I'd be inclined to agree for the most part, that's what it is for me too.
However oldhammer is also a community and we have got more out of this community that calls itself oldhammer than from our various slightly aligned blogs from before taking on this joint moniker together. It's grown and many of the people that produce interesting and inspiring projects have a different understanding of what it means. They have joined a community with a name rather than as we did, used a name to describe a community.
So for most and for me Oldhammer is the community that has enabled us all so it is everything. If oldhammer is just a restriction to play one of three editions of one game...
However oldhammer is also a community and we have got more out of this community that calls itself oldhammer than from our various slightly aligned blogs from before taking on this joint moniker together. It's grown and many of the people that produce interesting and inspiring projects have a different understanding of what it means. They have joined a community with a name rather than as we did, used a name to describe a community.
So for most and for me Oldhammer is the community that has enabled us all so it is everything. If oldhammer is just a restriction to play one of three editions of one game...
Zhu Bajie
Member
Erny":3dla22uz said:
It's not arbitary! It cuts off at the exact point the company got sold! Even RP admits there was a different vibe.
Ah, but what I'm saying is much, much smaller than that
The word "oldhammer" is not free from content, like the word "gay" is. "oldhammer" denotes something about "old" and something about "hammers" (which in a gaming context is reasonably likely to be Warhammer). "gay" which used to connote happy, now connotes "homosexual" (to a majority of people, it can also mean 'rubbish') - which is made possible by the fact that the letters 'g' 'a' y' have no relationship with either the state of happiness or the state or practice of homosexuality other than it's repeated use. "oldhammer" carries meaning, albeit dependant on the understanding of "old" and "hammer" (which themselves are arbitrary, if culturally stable). Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that that meaning is the oldhammer contract or (whilst agreeing with Mark Hides and Blue in VT) that "oldhammer" can only infer a single thing.What I would say is that if someone attempted to define something that was neither "old" nor "[war] hammer" as "oldhammer", that they'd be ineffectively communicating their idea, and would be better off either not using the neologism, creating a new 'wanky' phrase (thanks Zog ;-P) or using something else. I think I've seen some people using "Oldhammer Dark Future" or something, and to me that's just a failure of imagination. Dork Future is much funnier.
I have a similar aversion to Zog and Diesel when it comes to games businesses using the word, it does feel a bit awkward, but we've established historically that the community largely don't mind. Tim Prow recently used in when talking about Diehard miniatures, on the thrice-accursed Book of Face, and I think everyone knew exactly what he meant by it.
Erny":3dla22uz said:
I think Oldhammer, in use when attached to a group of people, does tend to be qualified by something like the Oldhammer Movement, or the Oldhammer Community - not "oldhammer" by itself, and I think that's a comfortable distinction. None of the responses here mentioned "community" as being their primary answer, they've all talked about aspects of The Hobby™(collecting, modelling, painting, gaming) - other than Diesel who says he did not think of himself as part of one. But then Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, so that's just a position one can choose to adopt for whatever reason.
Similarly having a definition of what Oldhammer is should not preclude what members of Oldhammer Community do, or use the various and ever increasing number of Oldhammer spaces for. I'm not oldhammering when I play AD&D, and I can't see why I would call it that.
Protist
Member
Just a little bit threadomantic - but I was out of touch for a week or so, so I've jumped back into the threads I was following... sorry!
I want to respond to, and elaborate upon, Zhu's point that no one suggested Oldhammer as a community. The primary definition of Oldhammer I gave, (on page 2 ) is the idea of a community:
I want to respond to, and elaborate upon, Zhu's point that no one suggested Oldhammer as a community. The primary definition of Oldhammer I gave, (on page 2
) is the idea of a community:Community is exactly the word I didn't have at my fingertips at the time! Without the contributors to the forum and (though I haven't joined it) the Facebook group, there wouldn't really be any such thing as Oldhammer to argue about. I've written a fairly substantial article about this on my blog - since its becoming something of a rite of passage for us 'Oldhammerers' these daysOldhammer is the forum I came across whilst I was trying to discover as much as I could about the 'magical age' of gaming... This forum has allowed me to explore these ideas with like minded individuals
Well, it may be a position that one can choose to adopt, but it doesn't make it true; like Holocaust denial or vaccination paranoia. A gaming forum is a community of sorts; you go along and join, make a few statements and you've made a contribution to that community. Even when its only a temporary thing you have formed part of that community whether you want to be seen as such or not.Zhu Bajie":24mfdm4c said:
area23
Member
At least here on the forum no-one posts pictures of their 1990's orcs with the question 'is this oldhammer?'. The FB page has become borehammer.
on the other hand, its a bit like the discussions I had as a teenager on music. 'Is it punk or metal?' Or is it more crossover hardcore trash?
So is it expressionism or new objectivity? Is it situationist or only detournement? But is it vegan?
on the other hand, its a bit like the discussions I had as a teenager on music. 'Is it punk or metal?' Or is it more crossover hardcore trash?
So is it expressionism or new objectivity? Is it situationist or only detournement? But is it vegan?
dieselmonkey
Member
area23":bernsrwj said:
Don't worry, if it was, it'd fuckin' tell you.
Golgfag1
Moderator
My two pennies worth for what its worth - Oldhammer is playing a version of warhammer or any of its derivatives with the purpose of everybody having a fun game, be they members of this forum or not; playing 8th edition with solid based figures or first edition with plastics. I've done both in my time and will no doubt do so, again.
What isn't oldhammer, when played with a sense of fun - be it running away from every fight or fanatically charging into a melee you know you can't win, just because you know the other guys going to stand there open mouthed - mumbling - "I didn't expect that" or something much funnier!
Oldhammer - play up, play up and play the game, because at the end of the day - games are supposed to be fun, yes?.
Paul / Golgfag1
What isn't oldhammer, when played with a sense of fun - be it running away from every fight or fanatically charging into a melee you know you can't win, just because you know the other guys going to stand there open mouthed - mumbling - "I didn't expect that" or something much funnier!
Oldhammer - play up, play up and play the game, because at the end of the day - games are supposed to be fun, yes?.
Paul / Golgfag1
Count Von Bruno
Member
dieselmonkey":1wbumadt said:area23":1wbumadt said:
Don't worry, if it was, it'd fuckin' tell you.
That's just the kind of vegetable-ist comment I would expect from you Diesel
Otto1485
Member
Oldhammer (to me at least) is finding a nice bunch of people who are interested in collecting, painting and playing with the miniatures that I have been collecting (and in many instances have stubbornly held on to through thick and thin) since my mis spent youth.
Oldhammer is you guys and the encouragement that you give to everyone when it comes to collecting, painting and playing with your toy soldiers.
All the best
Otto
Oldhammer is you guys and the encouragement that you give to everyone when it comes to collecting, painting and playing with your toy soldiers.
All the best
Otto