Poll: Factions (un)love

What faction do you think needs more love?

  • High Elves

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Wood Elves

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Dark Elves

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Empire

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Bretonnia

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chaos

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Skaven

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Orcs

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Dwarfs

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Slann

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Undead

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Fimir

    Votes: 6 23.1%
  • Pygmies

    Votes: 1 3.8%
  • Halflings

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Nipponese

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Ogres

    Votes: 2 7.7%
  • Half Orcs

    Votes: 4 15.4%
  • Hobgoblins

    Votes: 3 11.5%
  • Norse

    Votes: 3 11.5%
  • Other

    Votes: 5 19.2%

  • Total voters
    26

Gallivantes

Member
Hearken ye all!

Here's a question I've been mulling over. Some recent threads here about pygmies and hobgoblins has further fuelled this thought of mine too, the question of: Which armies/factions/ranges/particular model seem generally poorly catered for, in the grand scheme of things?

This could be an insanely broad debate. On one flank two people are discussing whether bow-armed hobgoblin wolf rider musicians are rarer than bow-armed hobgoblin wolf rider champions. This may be totally true. Oblivious to this someone else says there are "many dwarves" but "few pygmies". That may also be true but the topic wouldn't be discussed at the same level.

To avoid this I decided to approach it top-down and list broad factions or types. If people are interested in delving into this there is no reason there can't be more specific spin-offs. Another limitation I put on this question was to frame The Fantasy segment and leave out Sci-Fi and other areas.

What I hope to get out of this are people's SUBJECTIVE views. We all know that there are many more options for Empire than Slann out there but that's more of an OBJECTIVE observation. If you know this, but still personally feel like the Empire faction is missing something, then vote for that! If you don't care about Slann but would like to see some female greatswords some day this is where you should cast your vote. Whether you wish for Halfling arquebusiers or Undead steeds you should be able to pick a faction regardless of your motivation. If your faction isn't on the list add them in the thread.

You get to pick up to three options.

Will this show the reality of it or will it just reflect the vocal minorities out there? I don't know, but I don't know a better way of investigating this. Make sure you have your say and perhaps there will be more of the former!
 

jon_1066

Member
I think Slann were not developed to their potential. The conquistador, new world vibe had a lot going for it so it was a shame to see the Slann not really go anywhere apart from Lizardmen wizards.

Fimir obviously had few models released with little love shown them.

Other would be for Amazons. Again linked with the Slann - not really taken on and developed.
 

Gallivantes

Member
jon_1066":306dvg85 said:
I think Slann were not developed to their potential. The conquistador, new world vibe had a lot going for it so it was a shame to see the Slann not really go anywhere apart from Lizardmen wizards.

Fimir obviously had few models released with little love shown them.

Other would be for Amazons. Again linked with the Slann - not really taken on and developed.

Great input.

I am lamenting not including Amazons now. But I had to restrict the list to 20 options so I was already fighting to get a good starting field. At least in the thread this will be highlighted.
 

Gallivantes

Member
I should also mention that it's possible to go back and re-assign your vote. I wanted the results to indicate current state of view at any point. For the same reason there is no end to the poll.
 

Golgfag1

Moderator
OK, here's my two pennies worth, my votes where:

Slann / Lizardmen - In my opinion the opportunity to develop this idea was raised, unfortunately, other things got in the way and thus it went down a cul-de-sac - which it's still trying to escape from.

Ogres - There's a wider story here with needs developing, it's hinted at in the BOB & Army lists, but their treated has a sub-sect of O&G's; whereas Ogres don't actually like than - it's a case of the rest of planet treat them like blood thirsty killers and so they act as the part.

Others - basically any other race not already mentioned - Arabia any one!

Paul / Golgfag1 8-)
 
When you say "the grand scheme of things", I am interpreting that as "the entire history of Warhammer" rather than just the 80s.

As such, my biggest complaint about armies that weren't properly developed from the days of 2nd/3rd Edition is Araby.

I have always had a great fondness of Orientalist/Arabian Nights-style fantasy -- genies, sorcerers and flying carpets etc. Probably influenced by Disney's Aladdin, and the computer games Prince of Persia and Magic Carpet. I know they were well catered for in Warmaster, and they somehow managed to get a ship in Dreadfleet, but not so much in Warhammer.

Also, another gripe which I complain about a lot is that the Norse weren't well looked after from 4th Edition onwards. Sure, they had a Man O' War fleet, and they contributed a hero for Warhammer Quest, but they didn't get a proper army. And then by 5th Edition they were all classed as mere Chaos Marauders, which I was very disappointed about.

Thirdly, I voted Halflings, because all that has managed to survive of the entire Halfling race into the modern era is the memory of a catapult that fires a cooking pot.
 

Gallivantes

Member
Golgfag1":w79dlrlr said:
Ogres - There's a wider story here with needs developing, it's hinted at in the BOB & Army lists, but their treated has a sub-sect of O&G's
I take this to mean you're not sold on the later edition revamp? I for one am not :grin:

I agree this would be fun to explore in a different manner than they did. My own view of them was always one of the ultimate mercenary. Fighting in any theatre, under any general that will hire them. Great basis for models, lore and rules.

I could make a long list of things I don't like about the revamp but I'll spare you the rant :) Suffice to say I preferred the old brutes of Jes Goodwin and Nick Lund. And I would like to see a better take on their background than riding megafauna with cartoony faces and hanging out with goblins who love scrap.

I don't know if your thoughts were in any way similar Golgfag, those were my 2 cents on one of my favourite factions ever.

On a total side note I am currently painting... Golgfag!
 
Yeah, personally i'd go with Slann as well.

They were always meant to be a major part of the Warhammer World (albeit in decline), but never really got off the starting block as far as models went. It even went so far as for there to be more model variations available pre-slotta than in the slotta era. For a range that was meant to be fielded as an army to have pretty much only one model variant per unit type was unheard of in any of the other ranges, from memory. Most of the other poorly-catered for ranges were always meant to be allies or mercenaries, not full armies.

I do agree about Araby though to a degree. Mind you, I seem to recall a rumour that the entire raison d'être behind the concept was so that a studio staffer could shoehorn his Saracen army into games...
 

Golgfag1

Moderator
Gallivantes":z4ofero2 said:
Golgfag1":z4ofero2 said:
Ogres - There's a wider story here with needs developing, it's hinted at in the BOB & Army lists, but their treated has a sub-sect of O&G's
I take this to mean you're not sold on the later edition revamp? I for one am not :grin:

No I'm not engaged with their current spin , ogres are meant to be NEUTRAL, not evil or Chaotic, which in my book leaves a lot of wiggle room as to what they might do on a game (Honorable Mercenaries, fight to the last, switch sides etc etc!),

I agree this would be fun to explore in a different manner than they did. My own view of them was always one of the ultimate mercenary. Fighting in any theatre, under any general that will hire them. Great basis for models, lore and rules.

As you imply they'll fight for anybody, anywhere at any time - simply for the sake of fighting? not in my opinion; I'd consider them a clan based society, striving for individual acclaim, which others are inspired to emulate - think vikings, samurai or Highlanders. They'll follow, but only if, they think the one who's leading - is worth following.

I could make a long list of things I don't like about the revamp but I'll spare you the rant :) Suffice to say I preferred the old brutes of Jes Goodwin and Nick Lund. And I would like to see a better take on their background than riding megafauna with cartoony faces and hanging out with goblins who love scrap.

Again, more character, inspiration and variety to take them somewhere of your choosing rather than the companies, with the original figures and concepts in my opinion.

I don't know if your thoughts were in any way similar Golgfag, those were my 2 cents on one of my favourite factions ever.

On a total side note I am currently painting... Golgfag! The character is nothing like me, the rumours are totally unfounded & uncorroborated, haven't had to raise more than my voice or the occasional glass in years :grin: :lol: :grin: :lol: :grin:

Paul / Golgfag1
-
 

A Badger

Member
Nippon has to be the army that was least catered for. In Ravening Hordes you had to have like 100 Ashigaru as a minimum troop choice - and if you discount the old pre-slotta CO1 figures no specific Ashigaru models were ever made to support these rules (or the 3rd Ed mercenary / ally list). And although I'm sure they were good sellers, I always thought the number of Ninjas Citadel sculpted 1985-7 (48 in total!) was overkill when you could only field one or two in the army lists!
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
Kind of prefer background-light, army-list and miniatures agnostic things.

Thematically I think we could have seen some much more interesting Halflings, John Blanche's piece in Forces of Fantasy is much weirder and darker than other takes, I'd like to have seen that direction pursued in a Warhammer context.

Men-fish could have been interesting if taken into Kua-toa and cthuloid cult territory - pale bulbous eyed half-orcs and whatnot. As it is they got what, 2 models and a single paragraph.

Snakemen 5 models, one paragraph in 1st Edition. Come on! And 'Chaos' as a lame-arse catch-all doesn't cover them either.
 

Willmark

Member
Nippon.

I've been slowly collecting a force but have recently decided its going to be all GW minis, probably going to take me a decade lol!

Zhu Bajie":2ml8xe7d said:
Snakemen 5 models, one paragraph in 1st Edition. Come on! And 'Chaos' as a lame-arse catch-all doesn't cover them either.
I was wondering about this... My plan is to use them as count as Allies for my Dark Elves.
 

Gallivantes

Member
Zhu Bajie":vq015atf said:
Kind of prefer background-light, army-list and miniatures agnostic things.

Thematically I think we could have seen some much more interesting Halflings, John Blanche's piece in Forces of Fantasy is much weirder and darker than other takes, I'd like to have seen that direction pursued in a Warhammer context.

I don't have access to that publication unfortunately, would love to see what you're referring to though. Found this online (from your own blog no less :grin:). Would that be it by any chance?
blanche_2.png


Men-fish could have been interesting if taken into Kua-toa and cthuloid cult territory - pale bulbous eyed half-orcs and whatnot. As it is they got what, 2 models and a single paragraph.
Yes if this doesn't amount to modest catering for I don't know what does. Even the Zoats got more than that didn't they?

Snakemen 5 models, one paragraph in 1st Edition. Come on! And 'Chaos' as a lame-arse catch-all doesn't cover them either.
No you're right, it really doesn't. I had to limit the list to 20 choices but by far I think Chaos with all it's subjects suffered the most from this. Besides the Snakemen I can think of Minotaurs, Centaurs, Beastmen, Dragon Ogres and Boar Centaurs (and there are probably more!). Also varieties of other species like Chaos Dwarfs, Chaos Goblins and Chaos Hounds. Then there are subvarieties of the basic human Chaos type, like Warriors, Marauders and Thugs, Sorcerers and Champions and mounted versions of all of those. I would have liked to put them in the poll but even if we don't cover the human subvarieties I would have to remove nine entries from the list to fit in snakemen, minotaurs etc. Thanks for highlighting them in the thread as I hoped people would.
 
A Badger":3dxhjdm8 said:
And although I'm sure they were good sellers, I always thought the number of Ninjas Citadel sculpted 1985-7 (48 in total!) was overkill when you could only field one or two in the army lists!

I think they really came out on the back of the early 80's Martial Arts craze. GW released Runequest: Land of Ninja at about the same time, so I think they were really roleplay models rather than for armies.
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
John Blanche's Halflings....

and here's one from a D&D artilce in White Dwarf 63, a bit more traditional but also has an odd vibe.


Oh and I meant the Snakemen being rolled into the "Realms of Chaos" range rather than being developed in their own right. The Chaos category in the poll is fine, because there is Chaos as well. Also quite a bit of discussion on them here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5291
 

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Gallivantes

Member
Zhu Bajie":3gg5jt8f said:
Oh and I meant the Snakemen being rolled into the "Realms of Chaos" range rather than being developed in their own right.

Thanks for the Halfling references Zhu.

Regarding the Snakemen I misconstrued your comment but I follow you now :) And shame they never fleshed the culture out more, I really think they were a good candidate for that.
 

Plaiecivile

Member
I voted for empire, but it would also refer to elves or dwarfs. In the chaos background there is a lot said about demons and creatures that are fueled by the feelings of humans like fear, violence, despair.
I always though their counterparts were not represented enough, light spirits, angels, golems and all those sorts of spirits that serves the good.

And yes, I admit the Stormcast and the Elves spirits from Age of Sigmar answered quite right to what I was missing… ;)
 
I voted for Fimir, Hobgoblins and Other (Troglodytes)

Fimir have always been that lost race to me. To the young eager 90s me they appeared in Heroquest and then mysteriously vanished, sure the bigger ones lurked in the citadel background. But it was always a case of when will I get to see more of these club tailed reptilian cyclops that live in bogs and marshes?

Hobgoblins because the Chaos dwarf ones are obscenely expensive today, they have a sneaky charm to them and I like there style in contrast to orcs and goblins.

Other (Troglodytes): I always like Sinbad: Eye of the Tiger and to find these existed in Warhammer was fantastic, a pity there are so few models for them.
 
i never cared for the whole Nippon and Araby stuff. it didn't feel warhammery to me and it doesn't really now. the closest i came to caring was in the Genevieve story with Vukotich trying to prevent a Nipponese chaos sorcerer from doing bad things. i thought that the character of the sorcerer was quite good.

i agree with zhu on snakemen. they could have been made into something i reckon.
 
daddyorchips":9v49h9ll said:
i never cared for the whole Nippon and Araby stuff. it didn't feel warhammery to me and it doesn't really now. the closest i came to caring was in the Genevieve story with Vukotich trying to prevent a Nipponese chaos sorcerer from doing bad things. i thought that the character of the sorcerer was quite good.

i agree with zhu on snakemen. they could have been made into something i reckon.
If I'm not mistaken, the sorcerer is Cathayan...
 
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