Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?


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Post Sat Oct 22, 2016 8:26 am

Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

So the previews of Prospero Burning are up, and I recently finished "the First Heretic" novel. Both feature Custodes as super-Marines.
That isn't the impression I got from Rogue Trader, but I may simply have missed it. I never planned a scenario involving an assault on the golden throne, so I didn't pay too much attention to them.
Were they always so powerful, or was this a later development? If it was later, does anyone know when it happened? I have fallen a bit behind in my knowledge of 40K fluff since I decided I preferred early stuff, mixed with the odd retcon and my own bits of head-canon.
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Post Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:25 am

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

In the rogue trader book they were listed as having a minimum of human minor hero stats. But they were not space marines.

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Post Sat Oct 22, 2016 7:50 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

i think that its recent. as far as i can tell they were ignored from RT until the Horus Heresy series. To be honest, it makes sense that they can beat Space Marines. What's the point of super bodyguards that can't beat your elite soldiers? i like the idea that the custodes were the third round of creation - first came the primarchs, and the emperor lost them. second came the space marines, who were well hard. then came the custodes, who were improvements to the space marines and would have replaced them eventually but shit went down and the emperor never got to roll them out properly before he had to go and fight chaos in the webway and then get chopped up by horus and put in the golden throne.
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Post Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:07 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

Gallowglacht wrote:So the previews of Prospero Burning are up, and I recently finished "the First Heretic" novel. Both feature Custodes as super-Marines.
That isn't the impression I got from Rogue Trader, but I may simply have missed it. I never planned a scenario involving an assault on the golden throne, so I didn't pay too much attention to them.
Were they always so powerful, or was this a later development? If it was later, does anyone know when it happened? I have fallen a bit behind in my knowledge of 40K fluff since I decided I preferred early stuff, mixed with the odd retcon and my own bits of head-canon.

Checked out the stats and Custodes are indeed super-marines in Rogue Trader.

Their WS, BS, T, W, I, A is 1 higher than of Marines.

It's just that they no longer wear armour in 40k.
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Post Mon Oct 24, 2016 9:21 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

AranaszarSzuur wrote:Checked out the stats and Custodes are indeed super-marines in Rogue Trader.

Their WS, BS, T, W, I, A is 1 higher than of Marines.

It's just that they no longer wear armour in 40k.


Yeah, but I thought that was because they were minor heroes. So badasses, but not genetically engineered super soldiers.
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2016 8:30 am

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

I was always under the impression custodes were better than space marines (hence my nickname ;-) ) so that canon must have been set either by late RT or early second edition.

However as I get older I find my brain gets increasingly addled... so maybe I have just retconned my old memories.

I'm not sure that I have been very helpful; sorry.....
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2016 2:40 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

Legiocustodes wrote:I was always under the impression custodes were better than space marines (hence my nickname ;-) ) so that canon must have been set either by late RT or early second edition.

However as I get older I find my brain gets increasingly addled... so maybe I have just retconned my old memories.

I'm not sure that I have been very helpful; sorry.....


No, you're cool. Maybe I need to be more specific in my question.
They could, right from the start, beat up space marines, as they have a minimum hero's stats, which are better than a standard marine.
They are, however, still the stats of a biologically normal human being. They are elite badasses, but clearly not the genetically engineered combat monsters marines are.

But in recent fluff, they are the result of a similar gene altering process, apparently using the Emperors DNA instead of a Primarchs.
That was the bit I was wondering about, when did the gene-altering happen?

I guess, of course, that it might have always been there, and giving them minor hero stats was an easy short hand. Maybe Rogue Trader just never dwelt on the detail, being more concerned with the shady dealings Abdul Goldberg in and around Greasy Kim's diner.
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Post Thu Oct 27, 2016 9:32 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

I really dislike how heroes and stuff works. I think baseline Space Marine should be a human minor hero with a Space Marine template applied, not a baseline human with a template applied.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2016 1:36 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

Gallowglacht wrote: They are elite badasses, but clearly not the genetically engineered combat monsters marines are.


Marines aren't genetically altered in Rogue Trader either, they're just humans who have had tech grafted on and special training.

AranaszarSzuur wrote:I really dislike how heroes and stuff works. I think baseline Space Marine should be a human minor hero with a Space Marine template applied, not a baseline human with a template applied.


Personally I prefer the idea of just humans in powered armour, don't really think Space Marines should have the Minor Hero template, unless they are a Space Marine Minor Hero.
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Post Fri Oct 28, 2016 7:23 pm

Re: Custodes; when did they become Super-Marines?

Zhu Bajie wrote:
AranaszarSzuur wrote:I really dislike how heroes and stuff works. I think baseline Space Marine should be a human minor hero with a Space Marine template applied, not a baseline human with a template applied.


Personally I prefer the idea of just humans in powered armour, don't really think Space Marines should have the Minor Hero template, unless they are a Space Marine Minor Hero.

Space Marines are supposed to be "ultimate human warriors", "specially selected from galaxy's toughest psychopaths" and "surgically altered to be stronger and faster than any normal man". Also, they have insane training schedules.
Marines aren't ordinary men and they aren't just humans. They are selected from an already exceptional group of people. It sounds like heroic characters that were enhanced and then given additional training, not ordinary soldiers to me.

Also, to accomplish what they are supposed to accomplish (being the strike force of the Imperium while operating only in small numbers), they must be something more than ordinary humans with a bit better stats.
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