What is Oldhammer?

I was just looking at our list of forum members and it seems that we are now sitting at 985 Oldhammerers! So this means that we now have nearly enough members to form our own Space Marine Chapter (The Old-tra-Marines maybe or the Sala-Hammer-Manders).

I would say having a millenial of members is something of an auspicious occasion and so I thought I would put a question out there....What is Oldhammer to you?

It seems to be something different for each of us (but no less special because of it) and I would love to see what everyone's perspective is...

Is it lovingly collecting, painting and displaying old models?
Is it playing with older, out of publication rulesets with like-minded gamers?
Is it the opportunity to rant about 'How things were different back in the old days' or 'What a corporate monstrosity GW has become!'
Or is it just some hoary old gamers trying to recapture their lost youth by playing their favourite old games with rose tinted spectacles (that's probably me)

I would be really interested to see your take on this topic as it struck me what a varied band of brothers (and sisters) we are!

I'm also really interested to see if we have many younger gamers who didn't play these games the first time around and have been drawn in to our niche hobby for different reasons! Don't be shy

Oh no... Not this question again!

For me, I can distinguish between Oldhammer as a philosophy and Oldhammer as a substantive collection of images, figures, game editions and other material. The philosophy is very broad, and would include a way of playing even the most recent Warhammer games and even games from other companies.

The substantive stuff is a lot more narrow and personal, according to what I personally grew up with (1990's Warhammer and 40k). So that would be Warhammer 3rd edition (Ok, I grew up with 4th/5th, but even I recognize the manifest superiority of 3rd edition) and Warhammer 40,000 2nd edition (which I am currently in the throes of recollecting!).

One vote for Oldtramarines. Spotted some grey hairs this month so it's only appropriate!

Galadrin":2hfu9273 said:

Oh no... Not this question again!

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Haha, yes- Legio, you're gonna have a lot of 'splaining to do!

Was it Carl Jung or Dick Van Patten who said "if you label me, you negate me"?

Me? I tick the boxes of playing old games with old minis (in a gentlemanly fashion) with other like minded gamers.
There's definitely a large element of "lost youth" in there, as I never had a properly painted army or played many games back in the day so now I'm finally getting around to it and having a blast.

Actually it is not the same old question again.
He is not asking for oldhammer to be defined he is asking what's in it for you.
He could have just as easily called this thread "What you lookin' at?"

For me it is all about the minis. I love the character and charm of some of the older miniatures.

There is also something about owning some of the minis I used to look at longingly as a boy but could simply never afford as I turned the pages of those catalogues until they literally fell apart in my hands and I imagined the games I could play.

Then there is something else about posting them on the interwebz with a more up to date paint job in the hopes that folks might enjoy seeing them again or gain a new appreciation of some of this older stuff.

Never mind the question, I can wait to form the Oldtramarines... bagsy being a Chaplain!

Harry":rnfjatyi said:

Actually it is not the same old question again.
He is not asking for oldhammer to be defined he is asking what's in it for you.
He could have just as easily called this thread "What you lookin' at?"

For me it is all about the minis. I love the character and charm of some of the older miniatures.

There is also something about owning some of the minis I used to look at longingly as a boy but could simply never afford as I turned the pages of those catalogues until they literally fell apart in my hands and I imagined the games I could play.

Then there is something else about posting them on the interwebz with a more up to date paint job in the hopes that folks might enjoy seeing them again or gain a new appreciation of some of this older stuff.

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I'll stick with Harry's view of the question and with his answer too.

It's all about having a bit more money, skills and focus than I did back then to enjoy this hobby with like minded fellows. I have to say I've never enjoyed it as much as these past years with all the exchanges between bloggers/members and even people I've met thanks to this.

I do prefer older games for nostalgic reasons and for practical reasons too and I do tend to prefer old models because they fit my painting style better than say resin forgeworlds (more details than I feel like painting tbh).

In th eend it's the freedom and creativity I seek in Oldhammer and I find plenty of !

Oldhammer is going back to the origins of Warhammer, finding what is good and interesting there and returning it to the present.

The things that are interesting to me? Well my blog is kind of full of that, from Richard Halliwells Points System to Chaz Elliots graphic design for Rogue Trader, to Lustrian Pygmies to running 1E as a PBM. Gaming wise it been playing a mashup of WFB2 / 40K:RT or WFB1.

Mark Hides wrote a great piece that gets to the heart of the matter.

http://reallifesabugger.blogspot.co.uk/ ... to-me.html

I like ziggurats, skeleton death riders attacking a human village, alchoholic dwarves, marines that can chew through prison bars thanks to acid producing glands in their mouths and rules for spray on skins and how to remove them.
And all the lovely lovely minis I couldn't afford as a teenager that I now can but can't spare as much time to paint

Oldhammer is something I have recently stumbled upon but being new to it it appears to be almost anything you want it to be. Perhaps it is not so much a rule set or particular figure range but a mindset?

So no poring over army lists in order to crush your opponent but more trying to set up an interesting fun game where a story can unfold.

The stand out moments of my recent gaming using Lion Rampant really resonated with me from those old times. The repeated failure of a group of archers to move - they became so becalmed they literally did nothing the entire game. Instead of raging against the dice or the rule set or fate we both had a great laugh about it. The same when a roll of snake eyes evaporated my unit, or when I needed anything but a six and rolled a six to end a game with a crushing loss. The old Warhammer and WH40K were full of such moments from the multi melta marine who just wouldn't die to the giant battle where we fielded pretty much every miniature we owned that came down to two halfings and an Orc fighting it out in a wood.

The combination of doing something I enjoyed as a kid, the fondly remembered figures, the unfolding tale of the battle, the power of imagination - that is Oldhammer to me.

Same as last time, Oldhammer means little to me. I cringe when I hear (read?) most people use it, especially companies now promoting their products as Oldhammer (even if they really do suit, it still sounds awkward to me).

I love reading about old models, old rules, people's experiences and the history of games companies. Naturally many forums and blogs I read and love use the term or even feature it in the title, but you could run a web-browser plugin to omit the term and it would be exactly the same to me. I don't care what you call it, or if I think it's Oldhammer or not, I just want to see pretty pictures and read actual articles on a hobby. With words! (OK, perhaps I just need to write in a modern White Dwarf complaints thread on another forum )

I also like to think that I judge a miniature, story, game or piece of artwork based on just whether I like it, not just liking because it's old or hating because it's new, especially when it comes to GW.

Perhaps worth pointing out is that many blogs or forum posts with the exact same kinds of content manage without worrying what Oldhammer is, even if they've ever heard the term. A bit like a family still playing old handed-down editions of board games, never having read about them on boardgamegeek or whatever. Or people who just keep playing old video games occasionally, unaware that there are massive fan-bases of "retro" game fans, the same mix of older players and people just discovering what came before.

Zhu Bajie":3r61ssx1 said:

Mark Hides wrote a great piece that gets to the heart of the matter.
http://reallifesabugger.blogspot.co.uk/ ... to-me.html

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That is a great piece, thanks very much for the reminder. I'm embarrassed to admit I missed it earlier, I check the blog every couple of days for an update but I just realised I was on holiday when it was posted!

His "Is this Oldhammer?" post yesterday is pretty interesting, too. I'm just out of being one of the "wanks waiting to get lucky" as he puts it, but I can still appreciate the point made.

Oldhammer doesn't exist. It's a figment of our collective imaginations.

zoggin-eck":28kef3ns said:

Same as last time, Oldhammer means little to me. I cringe when I hear (read?) most people use it, especially companies now promoting their products as Oldhammer (even if they really do suit, it still sounds awkward to me).

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^ That. I'm a wargamer, and have been for over 30 years, on and off. Over that time I've collected figures, sold them and re-bought them, played many different rulesets and have favourites and disliked ones. Been in the industry, out, in again, and now on the peripheries of it.

What it comes down to is that I now mainly collect and paint Citadel lead from about '85-'91, and play RT and 3rd ed WFB. That's about it. I'm not an 'Oldhammerer', I don't have any ties to any 'community' as such, and we're not one big happy family. I've made a few friends from the assorted groups, but that's about it.

Oldhammer is this place and the other place and the friends I've made.

Its interesting, to me anyway, how divisive this 'Oldhammer' term has become and how dubiously it is applied by businesses and individuals alike. Perhaps we should send a definition (or set of) to the Oxford English Dictionary before it gets added into their catalogue incorrectly? Then I can verbally abuse those who use it incorrectly and know I'm right
Known definitions of 'Oldhammer':
1. Someone who makes ham, who is old.
2. Food prepared with ham that is past its 'Best before end' date - ie a sandwhich could be described as a bit of an 'Oldhammer'. The inference is that it shouldn't be eaten.
3. A term applied to a cult of strange, mostly older males (30 years and upwards) who are alleged to be obsessed with 'archaeo-gaming' out of print editions of rules sets from the 'Golden Age' of fantasy wargaming. The use of little metal figurines, lovingly coloured in, to represent opposing factions in the gamers' imagined worlds and conflicts is absolutely mandatory - some suggest that the lead content of these miniatures has lead to an epidemic of 'heavy-metal-madness' within the cult of Oldhammer. Rumour has it that the cult's initiation ceremony involves consuming a portion of the prospective member's collection of ultra-rare, hard to find and unique models.
4. That lump of rusty metal, at the back of the shed, attached to a rather frayed bit of wood. This item is usually passed down from parent to child without ever seeing much use.

Honestly though I don't think a definition actually matters that much
Oldhammer is the forum I came across whilst I was trying to discover as much as I could about the 'magical age' of gaming when I was too young to be able to form coherent ideas about it or afford (or know where to buy!) miniatures. I know the aesthetic and gaming style I've been seeking for 20 odd years, built up from glimpses here and there as a small child. This forum has allowed me to explore these ideas with like minded individuals

I'm a new convert to Oldhammer, having grown up with it around 6th. To me, Oldhammer is a lot of different things. Ibthinknfor some it's the figs, for others it's the rules. For me is the rules. The freewheeling nature of Oldhammer is a major plus, amd all the extra stuff like formations are an absolute joy.

Minis are a plus, but to the miniatures don't make Oldhammer. But it can enhance it depending on your force. Some of the old models were just better.

Oldhammer is very important to me. I would not even consider hitting old nails with anything else.

weismonsters":2sr2q7xj said:

Oldhammer is very important to me. I would not even consider hitting old nails with anything else.

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Careful mate, I've come across lots of old nails that are clearly recast lately

One may as well ask what is love?

Thantsants":1qiaahpc said:

One may as well ask what is love?

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Go on then...what is love?

From the numerous excellent answers here, I see one point, we are now able to ask this question without it reaching heated and pointless arguments. we can discuss racial stereotypes in the warhamer background (pigmies, orientals and all) and that now.

Brilliant.