What is Oldhammer?


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Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:07 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

As I think most of the OG around here know I really dislike these discussions...but all I am willing to say what it means to me...and that is:

Oldhammer is Warhammer 3rd editon WFB or older and Rogue Trader 40k. I don't care what figures you use...though I have a steep bias for the lead from the same period....but the rules and the mentality on which they were built should come from the "Golden Age."

Just because GW doesn't support 4th-8th anymore doesn't make it "oldhammer" IMO....YMMV.

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Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 3:30 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

Citadel Collector wrote:
Zhu Bajie wrote:
Erny wrote:Oldhammer means everything and nothing.


The meaning is somewhat predefined by it being a portmanteau of the words "old" and [war] "hammer", which is generally what people in a gaming context will understand it as - "Old Warhammer". ;)


Except of course that meanings of words can and do change.


Of course they can, but in this case they haven't, and any change would be constantly fighting the a-priori meaning of the compound whose elements which are readily understood.
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Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 4:17 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

I'd argue that to you oldhammer means as you say old versions of warhammer, with your arbitrary cut off point. You coined the term and I'd be inclined to agree for the most part, that's what it is for me too.

However oldhammer is also a community and we have got more out of this community that calls itself oldhammer than from our various slightly aligned blogs from before taking on this joint moniker together. It's grown and many of the people that produce interesting and inspiring projects have a different understanding of what it means. They have joined a community with a name rather than as we did, used a name to describe a community.

So for most and for me Oldhammer is the community that has enabled us all so it is everything. If oldhammer is just a restriction to play one of three editions of one game...

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Post Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:17 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

Erny wrote:I'd argue that to you oldhammer means as you say old versions of warhammer, with your arbitrary cut off point. You coined the term and I'd be inclined to agree for the most part, that's what it is for me too.


It's not arbitary! It cuts off at the exact point the company got sold! Even RP admits there was a different vibe.

Ah, but what I'm saying is much, much smaller than that ;-) The word "oldhammer" is not free from content, like the word "gay" is. "oldhammer" denotes something about "old" and something about "hammers" (which in a gaming context is reasonably likely to be Warhammer). "gay" which used to connote happy, now connotes "homosexual" (to a majority of people, it can also mean 'rubbish') - which is made possible by the fact that the letters 'g' 'a' y' have no relationship with either the state of happiness or the state or practice of homosexuality other than it's repeated use. "oldhammer" carries meaning, albeit dependant on the understanding of "old" and "hammer" (which themselves are arbitrary, if culturally stable). Just to be clear, I'm not arguing that that meaning is the oldhammer contract or (whilst agreeing with Mark Hides and Blue in VT) that "oldhammer" can only infer a single thing.

What I would say is that if someone attempted to define something that was neither "old" nor "[war] hammer" as "oldhammer", that they'd be ineffectively communicating their idea, and would be better off either not using the neologism, creating a new 'wanky' phrase (thanks Zog ;-P) or using something else. I think I've seen some people using "Oldhammer Dark Future" or something, and to me that's just a failure of imagination. Dork Future is much funnier.

I have a similar aversion to Zog and Diesel when it comes to games businesses using the word, it does feel a bit awkward, but we've established historically that the community largely don't mind. Tim Prow recently used in when talking about Diehard miniatures, on the thrice-accursed Book of Face, and I think everyone knew exactly what he meant by it.

Erny wrote:However oldhammer is also a community and we have got more out of this community that calls itself oldhammer than from our various slightly aligned blogs from before taking on this joint moniker together. It's grown and many of the people that produce interesting and inspiring projects have a different understanding of what it means. They have joined a community with a name rather than as we did, used a name to describe a community.

So for most and for me Oldhammer is the community that has enabled us all so it is everything. If oldhammer is just a restriction to play one of three editions of one game...


I think Oldhammer, in use when attached to a group of people, does tend to be qualified by something like the Oldhammer Movement, or the Oldhammer Community - not "oldhammer" by itself, and I think that's a comfortable distinction. None of the responses here mentioned "community" as being their primary answer, they've all talked about aspects of The Hobby™(collecting, modelling, painting, gaming) - other than Diesel who says he did not think of himself as part of one. But then Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, so that's just a position one can choose to adopt for whatever reason.

Similarly having a definition of what Oldhammer is should not preclude what members of Oldhammer Community do, or use the various and ever increasing number of Oldhammer spaces for. I'm not oldhammering when I play AD&D, and I can't see why I would call it that.
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Post Sat May 02, 2015 9:34 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

Just a little bit threadomantic - but I was out of touch for a week or so, so I've jumped back into the threads I was following... sorry!

I want to respond to, and elaborate upon, Zhu's point that no one suggested Oldhammer as a community. The primary definition of Oldhammer I gave, (on page 2 ;) ) is the idea of a community:
Oldhammer is the forum I came across whilst I was trying to discover as much as I could about the 'magical age' of gaming... This forum has allowed me to explore these ideas with like minded individuals :D

Community is exactly the word I didn't have at my fingertips at the time! Without the contributors to the forum and (though I haven't joined it) the Facebook group, there wouldn't really be any such thing as Oldhammer to argue about. I've written a fairly substantial article about this on my blog - since its becoming something of a rite of passage for us 'Oldhammerers' these days :lol:

Zhu Bajie wrote: But then Thatcher said there was no such thing as society, so that's just a position one can choose to adopt for whatever reason.

Well, it may be a position that one can choose to adopt, but it doesn't make it true; like Holocaust denial or vaccination paranoia. A gaming forum is a community of sorts; you go along and join, make a few statements and you've made a contribution to that community. Even when its only a temporary thing you have formed part of that community whether you want to be seen as such or not.
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Post Sun May 03, 2015 7:39 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

At least here on the forum no-one posts pictures of their 1990's orcs with the question 'is this oldhammer?'. The FB page has become borehammer.

on the other hand, its a bit like the discussions I had as a teenager on music. 'Is it punk or metal?' Or is it more crossover hardcore trash? :lol:
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Post Sun May 03, 2015 10:01 pm

Re: What is Oldhammer?

area23 wrote:But is it vegan?


Don't worry, if it was, it'd fuckin' tell you. ;)
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Post Mon May 04, 2015 12:19 am

Re: What is Oldhammer?

My two pennies worth for what its worth - Oldhammer is playing a version of warhammer or any of its derivatives with the purpose of everybody having a fun game, be they members of this forum or not; playing 8th edition with solid based figures or first edition with plastics. I've done both in my time and will no doubt do so, again.
What isn't oldhammer, when played with a sense of fun - be it running away from every fight or fanatically charging into a melee you know you can't win, just because you know the other guys going to stand there open mouthed - mumbling - "I didn't expect that" or something much funnier!

Oldhammer - play up, play up and play the game, because at the end of the day - games are supposed to be fun, yes?.

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Post Mon May 04, 2015 1:02 am

Re: What is Oldhammer?

dieselmonkey wrote:
area23 wrote:But is it vegan?


Don't worry, if it was, it'd fuckin' tell you. ;)


That's just the kind of vegetable-ist comment I would expect from you Diesel :P
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Post Mon May 04, 2015 9:49 am

Re: What is Oldhammer?

For me It's like japanese studying... 5th level separates todlers from kids. 4th and 3 rd level separates kids from men. 2nd level separates sperheroes from men, 1st level separates superheroes and gods. btw. (I'm struggling to pass lvl 2 in japanese)

I think that in Fantasy point of view mostly I see here at least men and superheroes of subject. (not me :mrgreen: )
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