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OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 11:09 am
by Zhu Bajie
Please note that all Games Workshop products are still in copyright, and they have never released PDFs of their Warhammer rulesets, White Dwarf (or other Periodicals) thereby all PDFs circulating on the internet are illegally distributed copies.

RISK OF LITIGATION
Games Workshop PLC has a reputation for aggressively defending its trademarks and copyrights, and has threatened sites such as Board Game Geek and RPG.net, forcing them to remove fan-made products else face costly legal battles. They do seem to turn a blind eye to fan-made army-list PDFs, but this is purely at their discretion. By discussing obtaining illegal copies of out of print materials on this board, we run the risk of drawing undue and unwanted legal attention to ourselves.

SUBSTANDARD COPIES
Many of the PDFs circulating on the internet are incomplete - much information of interest to the Oldhammer community - adverts for miniatures, for example - have been edited out of some magazines, and sometimes full-page artwork is missing. There is no substitute for an actual copy. Most materials can be bought from the second-hand market for less than their contemporary counterparts.

DAMAGE TO COLLECTORS MARKET
While this is difficult to prove, flooding the market with cheap (or free) versions of out-of-print materials will decrease demand for original product. This will devalue your collection over time. Would you recast the Citadel Giant in resin and send it to someone? Moreover once recast miniatures have a habit of proliferating, you might recast a figure for your own army, thinking it's fine as it is personal use, but when you sell your collection, it's passed on to someone who is non-the-wiser.

LIMITATION
We cannot control what you do in private or on your own blogs. However, I would encourage anyone to read the copyright laws in their own countries, read up on Games Workshop PLC. and their defenses of their copyright specifically with recourse to their actions to other websites (BGG) and also the current (as of 2013) Chapterhouse case. Another indicative case is that of Wizards of the Coast vs. 8 file-sharers in 2009.

TL:DR
Don't discuss file-sharing or recasting openly on the board. Thank you.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 12:31 pm
by Just John
I think we had discussion at the start of the forum and it was decided that the public areas of the forum would remain free of links to illegal copies of copyrighted material. A lot more people have joined since then so it might be an idea to sticky this to the front page and make it policy.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:04 pm
by Skarsnik
What's the general view on members (or moderators) sharing stuff like this on the oldhammer facebook group?

Separate things so they can do what they like? Or are the two linked closely enough that we are 'representing' the forums when we post on the fcebook group too?

I have a strong view on this, but I think we've shown before that as a group we can find an amicable solution to most things, so I'll let the discussion commence....

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:17 pm
by The Inner Geek
Skarsnik & Old Lead wrote:What's the general view on members (or moderators) sharing stuff like this on the oldhammer facebook group?

Separate things so they can do what they like? Or are the two linked closely enough that we are 'representing' the forums when we post on the fcebook group too?

I have a strong view on this, but I think we've shown before that as a group we can find an amicable solution to most things, so I'll let the discussion commence....


I recently posted a link to my public dropbox on the Facebook group at the suggestion of a fellow Oldhammerer who thought it might be of use to other enthusiasts. If anyone there, or here, have a problem with it, I'll go back and remove the link. I'm not looking to rock any boats or stir any pots.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 7:45 pm
by Just John
I don't know that the two sites are linked that much really - apart from a crossover of people. Its n interesting question though. I would think that the best policy would be not to do anything in public that could get the community in trouble.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 8:07 pm
by Chico
It's 2 separate groups it just has a crossover of people (But then again most forums/groups share some crossovers). As far as I'm aware its fine to post links there and have both requested and shared links on it. Same way as people's personal Blogs this forum has no effect on them and vice visa.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 9:57 pm
by Orlygg
Zhu Bajie wrote:Please note that all Games Workshop products are still in copyright, and they have never released PDFs of their rulesets, thereby all PDFs circulating on the internet are illegally distributed copies.

RISK OF LITIGATION
Games Workshop PLC has a reputation for aggressively defending its trademarks and copyrights, and has threatened sites such as Board Game Geek and RPG.net, forcing them to remove fan-made products else face costly legal battles. They do seem to turn a blind eye to fan-made army-list PDFs, but this is purely at their discretion. By discussing obtaining illegal copies of out of print materials on this board, we run the risk of drawing undue and unwanted legal attention to ourselves.

SUBSTANDARD COPIES
Many of the PDFs circulating on the internet are incomplete - much information of interest to the Oldhammer community - adverts for miniatures, for example - have been edited out of some magazines, and sometimes full-page artwork is missing. There is no substitute for an actual copy. Most materials can be bought from the second-hand market for less than their contemporary counterparts.

DAMAGE TO COLLECTORS MARKET
While this is difficult to prove, flooding the market with cheap (or free) versions of out-of-print materials will decrease demand for original product. This will devalue your collection over time. Would you recast the Citadel Giant in resin and send it to someone? Moreover once recast miniatures have a habit of proliferating, you might recast a figure for your own army, thinking it's fine as it is personal use, but when you sell your collection, it's passed on to someone who is non-the-wiser.

LIMITATION
We cannot control what you do in private or on your own blogs. However, I would encourage anyone to read the copyright laws in their own countries, read up on Games Workshop PLC. and their defenses of their copyright specifically with recourse to their actions to other websites (BGG) and also the current (as of 2013) Chapterhouse case. Another indicative case is that of Wizards of the Coast vs. 8 file-sharers in 2009.

TL:DR
Don't discuss file-sharing or recasting openly on the board. Thank you.


In light of recent events, this issue cannot simply be enforced on the forum without the enitre community debating the issue. No matter your opinion on the issue, membership has grown to such an extent that forum policy needs to be decided by the community, not admin, not mods and certainly not individual members.

We should vote on this issue so a clear precedent is made on filesharing once and for all.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 10:10 pm
by Zhu Bajie
This isn't a matter for discussion at all.

It's illegal. End of.

Sorry. Just to qualify that, only myself and Steve are at material risk from any legal action that may (or may not) be undertaken, my name is on the domain, and Steves name is on the hosting, so we're tracable. For me this is non-negotiable. If you want to promote illegal activity, please do it elsewhere.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:22 pm
by ardyer
Zhu Bajie wrote:This isn't a matter for discussion at all.

It's illegal. End of.

Sorry. Just to qualify that, only myself and Steve are at material risk from any legal action that may (or may not) be undertaken, my name is on the domain, and Steves name is on the hosting, so we're tracable. For me this is non-negotiable. If you want to promote illegal activity, please do it elsewhere.


I've got to agree with this. We wouldn't put it up to a community vote to see if we could sell heroin on the boards. Whether we like the laws or not, our governments made this decision for us.

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

PostPosted: Fri Oct 04, 2013 11:29 pm
by Citadel Collector
Zhu Bajie wrote:This isn't a matter for discussion at all.

It's illegal. End of.

Sorry. Just to qualify that, only myself and Steve are at material risk from any legal action that may (or may not) be undertaken, my name is on the domain, and Steves name is on the hosting, so we're tracable. For me this is non-negotiable. If you want to promote illegal activity, please do it elsewhere.


I can't argue with that. Realistically we all know that stuff is out there, and given all the chat surrounding groups like this, its easy to find. But I would certainly be uncomfortable about hosting e.g. PDFs of GW rulebooks on this forum's web space. And to be perfectly honest, I don't think we would need to...