OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©


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Post Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:09 pm

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

quote="ardyer"][quote="optimus"]

There is nothing illegal about recasting a product that has been bought....so long as you don't profit from it.

It's like saying to someone "You can't fit an after market part to your car, coz the next guy who buys it will be getting an inferior car"..........get real!

I'm by no means advocating selling or trading recast minis here, but why should we be scared about sharing skills about how to do it? It's not illegal!

Shouldn't we only be concerning ourselves about legal issues, not personal one's?

My two cents.

"Okay, standard disclaimer: I'm am American ip attorney, but copyright law is largely harmonized across Europe and the USA. However, your local laws may vary.

First, it is a misconception that profit is required for copyright infringement. It is not. Recasting is illegal whether it's for your own personal use our for public sale.

Second, there is something called "contributory infringement." If you encourage others the infringe, that potentially carries its own liability. That's the risk of telling others how to do it.

Third, if you are un-happy with the current state of copyright laws, please write your local legislative representative and tell them it needs to change."




There is a difference between a written law & an enforced law. Take VHS for example, people used their players to copy movies and TV shows "illegally" all the time. Heck, you could buy VHS recorders that were specifically designed to duplicate tapes for goodness sake. Did anyone ever get indicted over those copyright infringements? No, they didn't.

Do you see any of the casting videos on YouTube getting pulled down by lawyer's? How about people who have tutorials on their blogs showing you how to cast up bits and pieces for their conversions?

None of these advertisements for recasting/copying have been effected. Why? Because there is a difference between written law & enforced law.

I'm sorry, but I just don't buy this fear that the IP lawyer's are gunna come hammering on our doors for copying a couple of minis for private use. If your hellbent on copying someone's product to on sell it..... then your a dick & deserve to get sued. For the rest of us, is not worth getting our knickers in a twist over.
Last edited by Mr Papafakis on Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post Fri Mar 21, 2014 2:15 pm

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

optimus wrote:There is nothing illegal about recasting a product that has been bought....so long as you don't profit from it.


If I use another person’s work for a non-profit purpose, do I need permission?

There is no special exception that allows you to use a work without permission just because it is
used for a non-profit purpose. The copyright owner may give permission for a low fee, or no fee, if
the use is non-profit, but you still need to get permission.

Reference: http://www.copyright.org.au/search-resu ... +I+Need+It

Just saying.
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Post Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:46 pm

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

Not quoting because it would be too long of a post. You're correct. There is a difference between written law and enforced law. I think that's where this idea that you have to sell it comes from. But just because it's not enforced doesn't make it less illegal.

To quote Sammy Hagar if "I can't drive 55" I'm still breaking the speed limit whether it's enforced or not.

And the problem is, you never know when it's going to start being enforced. So the operators of this web site have every right to request that people not break the law.
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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:54 am

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

Aryder's laast point is the most important one here IMO...it's not what you do at home that I'm worried about as a mod...it's telling people about it on this "public" space...in the community...which is much more likely to become the target of a legal complaint than you as an individual. Illegal...not illegal..enforced or nor enforced....I don't really care....it's just not worth the risk of someone coming along and shutting the doors on this community which we all have a level of investment in.

DISCLAIMER: This is my personal opinion and not that of the mod team as a whole.

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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:29 am

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

Good to see this discussion people, please contribute as this guides the 'mod's' on how the majority view these things and thus how to deal with such. :D :D :D

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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:46 am

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

I am not an IP lawyer.
.... and I am not loosing much sleep over this one.

I have copied the odd part in order to restore a damaged sculpt.

I have even reproduced the odd shield where all my efforts to hunt down the last few to have a full set for a unit have failed.

However .... much as I might want multiples of a given miniature ... however silly expensive they may have become ... I don't think I would copy a whole mini.

In the end it comes down to personal integrity ... it's about whether you think this is right and wrong, good or bad, how to go on in the world not about the subtleties of IP law or whether it is enforced or whether we get caught or not ... Same way folks decide whether to break a speeding limit or rob a bank.

... It comes down to doing what you think to be right.

Now if some folks are OK with this ... then OK ... as I said it is about personal integrity.

But my sense of it is that a number of people here, on this forum, are not OK with this.
and those of us that are should keep it as a personal thing and NOT post about it on here where it is clearly something which has the potential to upset others.

You don't see me posting anything about Pony Wars now do you? :mrgreen:
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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:21 am

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

I'm sorry, but "personal integrity"? Give me a break!

So it's OK to copy parts of a mini but not the whole thing? Let's ask our IP lawyer friend what he thinks of that difference.

Look, the bottom line for me is that I only copy stuff I can't get hold of anymore.....been out of production for well over a decade. If you don't want to do that & the rest of the people here don't want to do that either, fine. But don't go feeding us this "holier than thou " line that partial reproduction is ok, but full minis is a big no no.

I've already decided that I'm not going to broach the subject of recasting on this form again. If anyone is interested, there's tonnes of the stuff on YouTube.... eat your heart out.
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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 11:38 am

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

I was on your side. :D
I did say .... "those of US"
I am including myself with those that evil, law breaking brigands who engage in the odd bit of copyright theft.
I am a man of generally poor character. :D
I draw the line at parts I can't get hold off or broken bits. You draw the line at whole minis.
Other people draw the line somewhere different.
I don't have any problem with where you draw the line ... "Its not something that is bothering me"

But as it is bothering other people it is something that I don't talk about much on here. (Same as Pony Wars. :D ... Great game and no actual native Americans were killed or injured during the making of this game).

I had already spotted you had come to a similar decision on the other thread ... and good on you.
As my old dad used to say ... "Always best to go through life not bothering anyone too much."
I wasn't having a pop at you ... or indeed anyone else.
Just saying it is a personal thing.
If you can't get hold of stuff you want ... and you want it ... knock yourself out.
Just saying it may be best not to talk about it too much on this forum as some folks get upset about it.
But you had probably gathered that. :D
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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:18 pm

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

optimus wrote:I'm sorry, but "personal integrity"? Give me a break!

So it's OK to copy parts of a mini but not the whole thing? Let's ask our IP lawyer friend what he thinks of that difference.


The size of the damage award. Also, you might actually be able to get partial use as described in under US-style Fair Use, depending in your judge/jury.

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Post Sat Mar 22, 2014 10:00 pm

Re: OOP, PDFS & COPYRIGHT ©

Harry wrote:But as it is bothering other people it is something that I don't talk about much on here. (Same as Pony Wars. :D ... Great game and no actual native Americans were killed or injured during the making of this game)


Harry, as far as I know there are no laws against playing Pony Wars. The same cannot be said for re-casting.

optimus wrote:Look, the bottom line for me is that I only copy stuff I can't get hold of anymore.....been out of production for well over a decade.


There's this website called eBay. With some money and some patience you will be able to obtain legitimate, legal versions of any of the items you desire.

Recasting is illegal, don't do it, and don't encourage others to do it. Simples.
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