Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)


Discuss anything related to miniature games not covered in other forums

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar

Posts: 219

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:36 pm

Post Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:36 pm

Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

Image

A logical step in this year's image salvage is to compile illustrations of the various historical cultures which were the source and reference basis for Warhammer's Hobgoblins. First out, in thundering pajamas and with Parthian shots from horseback, the Scythians!

Google Drive Folder
Imgur Album


The Scythians were an ancient people of Iranian speakers, a cavalcade of warring tribes that emerged on the historical scene around 700 BC, claiming the Pontic-Caspian steppe and Central Asia. Possibly related to the Cimmerians, who ravaged Anatolia and Caucasus before them, the Scythians were a folk of expert horsemen who mastered the steppe warfare method of mounted archery. A cruel and colourful bunch given to bloody rites, they sported female warriors among their ranks and wore a distinctive headgear, which should be familiar to all 4th edition Hobgoblin collectors. The Scythians played an important role in the wars of the Assyrian empire, often fighting as allies and mercenaries for the Assyrians yet being partially responsible for this great empire's downfall when they allied with Babylon, crushed the armies of Assyria and took part in laying waste to her cities.

Scythians were mercenaries in Persian and Greek armies alike, and were the elusive target for an Achaemenid Persian invasion, which failed to catch and defeat the swift riders in the field yet destroyed great kurgans (burial mounds) of Scythian kings. The Scythians were the overlords of the steppes for centuries, and exacted tribute from settled tribes, particularly grain which were sold on to Greek colonies in the Crimea and exported to hungry ancient Greece. Like all steppe nomads, they fell for other mounted tribes, even more dangerous and better armed than the preceding ones, and the ferocious Scythians disappeared into the roiling mists of history.

Infamous for making drinking cups out of the skulls of their foes, the Scythians truly stood at the pinnacle of savagery, as should be evident to all civilized peoples who know how to dress decently: The Scythians were trouser-bearers! Not even Warhammer's treacherous Hobgoblins sport pants, for there are depths of barbarity to which not even the filthiest scum will stoop. Yet the Scythians did so, putting on one leg at a time in wild disregard for modesty.

Image collection over on T9A.
Last edited by Karak Norn Clansman on Thu Oct 05, 2017 7:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
User avatar

Moderator

Posts: 1667

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:37 am

Location: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

Post Sat Sep 30, 2017 9:11 am

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

An excellent post for images of an ancient people who inspire a lot of fantasy myths - Centaurs for instance. But have to ask do they all really belong here or would a small selection with pictures and recommendation for further reading have been better, for people who wanted to go down that route?

I'm sure there are more than enough of us who have interest in this period of ancient history and would love to engage with the great & the good who developed WFB to find out how much they drew upon - Nigel Stillman for instance.

I have an extensive collection of Foundrys Scythians, Persians and Assyrians which I hope one day to finish painting.



Paul / Golgfag1
How can I ever have enough stuff, I don't need.

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/grumpyoldbadger
User avatar

Posts: 219

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:36 pm

Post Sat Sep 30, 2017 2:35 pm

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

Thank you!

Well, I don't believe in half-measures. If one can go encyclopaedic and cover something exhaustively while one is at it, then all the better. You never know what images may turn up useful for someone's hobby projects. ;)

Please do share when you get around to paint your Foundry ancients!
User avatar

Posts: 82

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:38 pm

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 2:34 am

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

Golgfag1 wrote:An excellent post for images of an ancient people who inspire a lot of fantasy myths - Centaurs for instance. But have to ask do they all really belong here or would a small selection with pictures and recommendation for further reading have been better, for people who wanted to go down that route?

I'm sure there are more than enough of us who have interest in this period of ancient history and would love to engage with the great & the good who developed WFB to find out how much they drew upon - Nigel Stillman for instance.

I have an extensive collection of Foundrys Scythians, Persians and Assyrians which I hope one day to finish painting.



Paul / Golgfag1

I'd have preferred a selection with further reading and links, especially for the pics, as they're probably from Pinterest and appropriated from published media, therefore might get the site in trouble over copyright infringement - a few are okay. On the Dacian thread, for instance, I recognize the plates from Radu Oltean's Dacia: The Roman Wars: Vol. 1 and Ancient Warfare.
User avatar

Moderator

Posts: 1667

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:37 am

Location: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 8:08 am

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

I wasn't going to go down the route of copyright, as I'd wanted to purse the conversation as regards the influences of ancient peoples on the development of WFB, but now you've raised the issue - I'm obliged to ask Karak to edit his original and Dacian post referencing all the sources, delete the sections he can't or delete both of them - Karak Norn Clansman- you have a week.

Before I do ! Sorry

Paul / Golgfag1
How can I ever have enough stuff, I don't need.

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/grumpyoldbadger
User avatar

Posts: 219

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:36 pm

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

Then please delete, gentlemen, no hard feelings, but before you do, please read the following and ponder before dropping these compilation threads in the trash can:

Be advised that you're the first and only forum to take such a stance (not even Total War Center cared about that - on the contrary admins thanked me for pulling it all together - probably since it's just a member sharing pictures, like everyone else does, not a site-official gallery embedded into the site structure), and I am sure any of the worries leading to deletion are completely unnecessary and possibly unfounded. I also have good reason to suspect that any hypothetical IP troubles (unlikely to arise in the first place) will arise in the initial form of a request to take down one or more specific pictures, whose url adresses would be provided by whoever requests takedown, and thus be easy for me, or a moderator, to click edit, enter search/find, and delete, for those particular image takedown requests (or just delete the whole thread if that is more convenient). It will not be a flat-out lawsuit without prior warning, there is always to be a cease & desist warning first in these matters. So even if one is to take an IP view of things, the most practical stance would be let-it-happen, we'll take down any individual pictures requested for takedown when and if we get there, no worries. In the meanwhile, hobbyists and historically interested people might get some use out of the compiled images. The only time I've heard of anything relating to troubles for sharing images, was when GW artwork was shared over on Chaos Dwarfs Online in their CD artwork compilation, and GW lawyers asked CDO to take them down, which CDO did, no lawsuit filed, and that's the end of it, no harm done.

With that noted, on to the circumstances for this year's image salvage:

The source of it all is the Photobucket crisis, and the devastating restructuring of Imageshack prior to that (which made us lose lots of shared hobby goodness in one fell swoop without prior warning - at least Photobucket played fairer) plus some smaller album sites/photohosting sites disappearing. Brilliant conversions, paintjobs, concept sketches and artwork shared via those platforms were gone with the wind. With Photobucket we had a kind of warning, so time was of the essence. Let's just say that I've never worked as hard as during this year's summer, primarily with salvaging Chaos Dwarf pictures and artworks of sufficient quality or ingenuity to be worth salvaging, all voluntarily and unpaid, of course. Here is the full register of image salvage compilations, which I've also posted on those forums I know of which might be interested in it (and with fantasy based in history, that includes all Warhammer fantasy forums), and which do not have a choking picture limit. I think you'll find a sample of each of these compilations on Oldhammer in General Discussion, since this site gratefully don't sport a picture limit to speak of (a point in your favour!). This is just as with the sharing of tutorials over in the hobby section; the important thing is sharing these resources, not whoever made them (I made all my own tutorials which I've posted, but everyone and their grandmother is welcome to share them willy-nilly without asking for permission or namedropping me; the more widespread, the better). Sources of inspiration, of use for as many people as possible.

We presently have an easily available treasure of images (and information, but that's not as endangered) for anyone with an inclination to learning who knows how to use a searchfield. Yet as Photobucket, Imageshack and the like shows, this digital treasure trove is flimsy and vulnerable. I've come to realize that we might well be living in the great time of free sharing of knowledge and artworks (free in every sense of the word, all positive), and there are no guarantees all these image hoards will be available freely, for free, for everyone to view and be inspired by, in the future. Backup copies are needed in case anything crashes, otherwise it's like letting great art die out from public view.

The last thing in the world I'd do is to play up to modern IP mania, which I as a thinking and creative person view with scorn. In short, getting inspired by the works of others is pivotal to human creativity and has been so since time immemorial, and putting artificial shackles and limits on creativity, as has become the legal fashion of our age, is unwise, and better underlined with swearwords if one is so inclined. I'm concerned with the treasure of images available for public viewing for thinking people and artists and hobbyists, that we currently have easily available at our fingertips, an astounding resource. This is not a paid job, so I've undertaken the image salvage methodically, and discarded aspects such as source-referencing to speed up the process and make it at all humanely possible and not a hardship. Not a paid vocation, as mentioned, just something I do every now and then in my spare time between a multitude of other projects (mainly sculpting for casting). Working round the clock here, but have found a way to do so without wearing myself out easily. To start hunting sources, backtracking image searches and referencing them would be anathema to this humane way of voluntary desktop work, so it's out of the question.

You'll notice that the sources for many of the Deviantart-salvaged Lotr Dwarf images I've collected and shared are referenced, but that is only because there are so few non-Weta Workshop Lotr Dwarf concept artworks which are not produced by only three productive artists. So here it was easier to organize them by artist's name.

What is to be salvaged? The answer is quality illustrations worth preserving, by assorted artists, none mentioned, none forgotten, as many good artworks backed-up as fast as possible. Many of the images were originally shared in such a manner that the artist's name or even the subject of the artwork wasn't mentioned, and in these cases often the artist wasn't recognizable (I've come to recognize a dozen or more, including Giuseppe Rava and Angus McBride), and sometimes even didn't sport a signature. I'd have preferred for every artwork to be adorned with a signature, but what can one do about it? So due credit given, so to speak, is by itself given in the case of those images where the artist himself included a signature in the artwork. None mentioned, none forgotten. The sorting system has been to file the images under theme (e.g. Scythian civilian life or Assyrian siege), not source name.

As of presently anyone can repeat this image salvage by using a plethora of searchword variations (requires some detailed knowledge of history or fantasy settings) on Google Images primarily, but also Deviantart (a nightmare to trawl through longer searches), Artstation and Pinterest. As for Pinterest being mentioned in a way as though it would be suspect to salvage images from there, I am nonplussed. Whatever that site is, it certainly isn't a repository exclusively for original work. If one, e.g. types in "Chaos Dwarf artwork" into Pinterest's searchfield, you'll come upon a plethora of images. Many of them will be official GW/FW/license holder artwork pieces, and others will be pieces taken from such sites as Deviantart (with or without mentioning the artist), while other results will be painted miniatures and conversions taken from Chaos Dwarfs Online, Cool Mini Or Not etc. In other words, taken from all over the place.

This whole image salvage is taken from all over the place. For interested people's benefit, and to save artworks for public viewing in some manner. History informs fantasy, and inspiration begets creativity.

My advice is let it be, delete if any ruckus would pop up but do not delete preemptively, and let the compilations stand for people to stumble across and be inspired by. :)

Cheers,

Matte / KNC
User avatar

Posts: 82

Joined: Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:38 pm

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:15 pm

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

Golgfag1 wrote:I wasn't going to go down the route of copyright, as I'd wanted to purse the conversation as regards the influences of ancient peoples on the development of WFB, but now you've raised the issue - I'm obliged to ask Karak to edit his original and Dacian post referencing all the sources, delete the sections he can't or delete both of them - Karak Norn Clansman- you have a week.

Before I do ! Sorry

Paul / Golgfag1

Didn't want to come across as the bad guy in this... :oops:

Just wanted to make sure everyone's on the same page about it being kosher. I know the Total War fora look the other way, in the interests of research, since Creative Assembly screwed the pooch in terms accuracy, like those Ptolemaic Egyptians in Rome I, but there are fora that are concerned about it. I know KNC found those images and I browse Pinterest for uploaded pics for research and even bought a few titles based on the quality of the illustrations, so am neutral over it, but noticed 5 Oltean plates and the obvious Osprey ones. It's not as if there are links to downloading whole books, so maybe a few pertinent pics and the rest links? Source attribution is another way to get around potential issues, as fair use is allowed for critique and research. It's unlikely that someone will send a C&D over this, so sorry about the kerfuffle...
User avatar

Posts: 219

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:36 pm

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:57 pm

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

Ah, yes, a few pictures left could be arranged, and a link to the imgur album as an external place for the compilation proper if you want? Whatever rows your boat, I'm just happy if it can be shared in any way. I buy and read Osprey publications and other historical books as well, so as a paying customer it hardly bothers me to also find the illustrations for free online. ;)

If you think it safest, we can delete the whole thread, or perhaps just cut it down to a link to the album or a link to a thread on another forum with all the pictures? It doesn't matter much to me, let's just say I've planted a number of identical sibling threads on other sites, so one should count with some loss or dispassionate trouble somewhere, it's to be expected (just like one has to expect warnings on some sites for sharing a phallic sculpting tutorial). And likewise not having the Imgur-shared pictures visible here doesn't matter much for backup, since I've many different Google drive folders for storage. I've been saving nice artworks and hobby pictures and pictures of archaeological artefacts and natural phenomena for years, and just wanted others to get some use out of it as well.

No feathers ruffled, no worries. Just say how you like it, and we can arrange a cut-down or fullscale deletion of some sort, and I'll try and remember to follow the same formula for any future image salvage compilations. Just wanna share others' artworks if possible.

Cheers
User avatar

Moderator

Posts: 1667

Joined: Wed Jul 03, 2013 6:37 am

Location: High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire

Post Sun Oct 01, 2017 7:19 pm

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

I repeat - I really want to purse a conversation as regards the influences of ancient peoples on the development of WFB and this is a prefect lead into that, so just edit this and the Dacian post - referencing sources, delete the sections you can't and post your links.

Thanks in advance

Paul / Golgfag1
How can I ever have enough stuff, I don't need.

https://www.tumblr.com/blog/grumpyoldbadger
User avatar

Posts: 219

Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 8:36 pm

Post Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:30 pm

Re: Illustrations of Scythians (2017 Image Salvage)

I'll take a look into it in some of the coming days when time presents itself.

Return to General Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.