Fantasy, or not fantasy, that is the question.

Padre

Member
During my arcane researches for pursuits both professional and hobby-tastic, I have encountered a few oddities over the years. Today I discovered an engine of war which reminded me very much of the Empire’s infamous Helstorm Rocket Battery, and thought I ought to present it here to you my fellow Oldhammerers.

It appears upon page 132 of Bishop John Wilkins treatise entitled ‘Mathematical Magick, or, the WONDERS That may be Performed by Mechanical Geometry in two Books: Concerning Mechanical Powers, Motions. Being one of the most Easie, Pleasant, Useful (and yet most neglected) part of MATHEMATICS Not before treated of in this Language.’

After considering the amazing feats performed by ‘that famous engineer’ Archimedes in ancient times, utilising war machines of incredible strength and effectiveness to destroy an entire war fleet at the siege of Syracuse, it moved onto chapter XVIII, concerning the ‘Catapulte, or Engines for Arrows’, and revealed this marvellous, mechanical monstrosity …

ArrowBlaster_zpsg9kmcibx.jpg


I can see exactly what is meant to happen here, but have to admit that I had my doubts about the practicality of such an engine, thinking that the tensions required and shock delivered in use might be asking a little too much of the material construction, and that even should it hold itself together then the arrows might most likely simply be shattered by the impact of the bent board.

BUT upon reading the bishop’s words, I did start to wonder whether I should think twice before adopting such an incredulous and dismissive attitude. After all, he wasn’t explaining but rather ‘explicating’, which sounds to be a much more acceptable process. For a start, many authors have described said marvellous engines, and one such, Polybius, ‘is an Author noted to be very grave and serious in his discourse; [who]does solemnly promise in one place that he will relate nothing but what either he himself was an eye-witness of, or else what he had received from those that were so’ … and that he was himself born ‘not above thirty years after the siege of Syracuse.’ Still, being of a most sceptical mind, such as is the modern way, I remained unconvinced that Archimedes could indeed be so ’extraordinarily subtil [sic] and ingenious above the common sort of men.’

Reading on, however, I was astonished to learn that such engines might hurl ‘enormes’ (milstones) or ‘sepulchrales’ (tombstones), and that the author Athenaeus mentioned a ballista that could throw weights of 3 talents (360 lbs), while Archimedes apparently cast a stone onto one of Marcellus’ ships weighing 10 talents (that’s a whopping 1200 lbs). Could it be true, I thought? Yet even while reeling from the mental imagery of such a feat, only a few lines later I learned that despite a cannon royal (the biggest ‘modern’ artillery piece) shooting no more than a 64 lb roundshot, the Turks at Constantinople – and this on the word of no less than an archbishop – did use a gunpowder piece that launched a shot of equal weight to that claimed for Archimedes! Of course, I was less surprised to read that such a mighty cannon required 150 yoke of oxen to haul it!

And yet, still I doubted, for I am a cautious fellow not known for rash decisions or silly pronouncements. Not me, not never, no way. Then … only one chapter later I was astonished to read the following:

Concerning ‘Catapulte’ launching spears: ‘they did carry with so great a force … (saith Ammianus) … that the weapons discharged from them were sometimes (if you can believe it) set on fire by the swiftness of their motion.’ I believe it, my Lord bishop. I believe it.

Furthermore: ’Tis related of the Turkish bow that it can strike an arrow through a piece of steel or brass two inches thick.’ … whether shot … ’vertically, horizontally or transversally’

And, if your stomach can take it, at the siege of Jotapata, ’A great bellied woman walking about the city on the daytime, had her child struck out of her womb, and carried half a furlong from her. A soldier standing by his Captain Josephus, on the wall, had his head struck off by another stone sent from these Roman engines, and his brains carried three furlongs off.”

Arrows bursting into flame from the heat created by their sheer velocity, and brains cast not one, not two, but three furlongs away! And here I was thinking I had been playing a fantasy wargame all these years!
 

Shaun

Member
I am on a phone so i can not type a great deal Padre but i have never seen a weapon like this before ... looking at the design i think it surely would work although the range is an unknown ... creating war machines is a diabolical area of human science and invention - the first flamethrowers are a nice example of seemingly impossible concepts becoming normalised through research and effort ... this arrow throwing machine seems realistic to me - but then ... i do not build war machines ...

To fire arrows so swift that they burst into flames seems difficult to believe though ... perhaps they were coated with phosphorous and combustible substances and the friction of their launchings caused the fire?

Ah well Padre i like your style ... keep up the good work on that Tilean Campaign!
 

Padre

Member
The bit where I wrote: "I am a cautious fellow not known for rash decisions or silly pronouncements. Not me, not never, no way," may have been a bit of a lie. I am indeed a silly fellow, and in no way do I actually believe what I claimed to believe in the piece above.

I think the reason you have never seen a weapon like it is 'because it is mere philosophical speculation and surely would not work in practice.

BTW, very glad you like the Tilean Campaign stuff. I am currently in the process of sorting out scenery, figures, lists and premises for a massive battle next weekend. The players (three necessary) are all 'good to go'. I shall probably begin putting together a prologue story piece this week. Quite excited.
 

Gallivantes

Member
Bendy plank, check. Rope, check. Lotsa arrers, check.

Somebody needs to make a Gobbo BoltSpanka(TM) for the Machineries of Destruction range. If nobody else does, I might just have to make my own one day, the design radiates reckless goblin death machine.
 

jon_1066

Member
Gallivantes":2l5fbz9z said:
Bendy plank, check. Rope, check. Lotsa arrers, check.

Somebody needs to make a Gobbo BoltSpanka(TM) for the Machineries of Destruction range. If nobody else does, I might just have to make my own one day, the design radiates reckless goblin death machine.

When it was found the arrows only flew two feet it was re-purposed into a stunty captive pulper.
 

Orjetax

Member
I love it.

This is one of my favorite posts in ages.

What a title. They don't make them like they used to in the 17th Century ...
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
It's like kids making up super-hero brags.

And then I threw a spear so fast it burst into flames.
Yeah? Well my mate shot an arrrow through 2" of brass.

The Arrow-whacker could make a nice piece of Orcish war machinery, but there's no way that would really work.
 

Gallivantes

Member
Except as the stunty captive pulper, which is a glorious idea unto itself. The revenge for the GobLobber is well past due.

Challenging to incorporate into a tabletop game meaningfully though perhaps. Maybe as an objective token for the right narrative campaign?
 

Padre

Member
I will admit that Bishop Wilkins does express doubt concerning some of the claims he repeats. Though not that many.

I love the fact that because it is the Warhammer world, then alchemy (actually magical, alchemy) and other magic, as well as strange substances like warpstone, mithric steel and such like, or even fantastical beasts, can be used to bridge any percieved gap between what would work in the real world and the crazy model you've just planted on the gaming table! I've had great fun over the years scratchbuilding warp-lightning steam cannons, doomwheels, steamtanks, scraplaunchers, pump-wagons etc etc.

Here's another illustration from Bishop Wilkin's book - a land chariot. It's an 'improved' version of those he says employed in China and Holland using ordinary sort of sails. This one, as you can see, would allow you to move directly into the wind. Not just 'close hauled', as a sailor would say, or 'on a bowline' 6 to 4 points (67.5 to 45 degrees) off, but straight into it!

LandShip_zpswvfwvgqc.jpg


He says he's not too sure about it, as on anything but the most even of grounds he thinks it would break itself apart!
 

Padre

Member
Huzzah! Well found, sir!

From a mid seventeenth century mechanical treatise to an early 21st century war film. Oh yeah.

Still, the thing was bound to work in the world of CGI. In that, world pigs literally can fly! :razz:
 

Fuxxx

Member
I initially saw this post in a lecture and laughed somewhat to hard at it :oops: But now with the Video... thats just great! :lol:
 
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