40K: Satire or not Satire


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Is Warhammer 40k a satire, or not?

Poll ended at Wed Feb 28, 2018 10:51 am

Warhammer 40K is a satire.
12
100%
Warhammer 40K is not a satire.
0
No votes
 
Total votes : 12

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Joined: Fri Aug 03, 2012 12:19 pm

Post Sat Apr 21, 2018 11:51 am

Re: 40K: Satire or not Satire

AranaszarSzuur wrote:
Zhu Bajie wrote:There’s no “parallel” between a mohawk and a balaclava. A mohawk is an expression of individual identity, while a balaclava hides identity - they're completely different visually and signify completely different meanings. Nobody is looking at a punk with a mohawk his hands against the wall and thinking ‘terrorist’.

I don't know, punks tend to look the same to me. Punk is probably one of the most de-individualizing subcultures out there when it comes to looks. Punks have pretty much de-individualised paramilitary look, except that trash. Which makes super-muscular armed punks similar to paramilitary in balaclavas. And balaclavas are also a bandit thing and there are bandits in mohawks


You've missed the point completely. A balaclava hides your face, makes you less identifiable. A mowhawk makes you more identifiable. Trying to draw a visual parallel between a mohawk and a balaclava is a ridiculous stretch. If anything the Space Marines are wearing helmets that look more like balaclavas and anonymise them. Look at the visuals.

AranaszarSzuur wrote:I don't think you understand how serious risk it was to challenge imperial authority historically.


I'm not sure why you are equating the British Rule in Northern Ireland with Nazi Germany, or what point you're trying to make here. Obviously Imperialism is portrayed as bad thing in Rogue Trader - but also a petty, and incompetent thing. As I said earlier, it would have been easy for Carl to portray the Marines in a more evil, violent, oppressive, gestapo like way, but that's not what is in the actual image.

AranaszarSzuur wrote:Crushing dissent is characteristic for tyranny and the Imperium is supposed to be the bloodiest regime imaginable..


Just like the bloody Romans. Hence the Pythonesque gag and multiple references to Life of Brian. It's satire.
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Post Sat Apr 21, 2018 10:20 pm

Re: 40K: Satire or not Satire

Zhu Bajie wrote:
AranaszarSzuur wrote:
Zhu Bajie wrote:There’s no “parallel” between a mohawk and a balaclava. A mohawk is an expression of individual identity, while a balaclava hides identity - they're completely different visually and signify completely different meanings. Nobody is looking at a punk with a mohawk his hands against the wall and thinking ‘terrorist’.

I don't know, punks tend to look the same to me. Punk is probably one of the most de-individualizing subcultures out there when it comes to looks. Punks have pretty much de-individualised paramilitary look, except that trash. Which makes super-muscular armed punks similar to paramilitary in balaclavas. And balaclavas are also a bandit thing and there are bandits in mohawks


You've missed the point completely. A balaclava hides your face, makes you less identifiable. A mowhawk makes you more identifiable. Trying to draw a visual parallel between a mohawk and a balaclava is a ridiculous stretch. If anything the Space Marines are wearing helmets that look more like balaclavas and anonymise them. Look at the visuals.

Mohawk makes you more identifiable when surrounded by the suitist subculture. In a place where almost everyone has punk look, it anonymises you by making you just another punk wearing the same hairstyle.

Zhu Bajie wrote:
AranaszarSzuur wrote:I don't think you understand how serious risk it was to challenge imperial authority historically.


I'm not sure why you are equating the British Rule in Northern Ireland with Nazi Germany, or what point you're trying to make here. Obviously Imperialism is portrayed as bad thing in Rogue Trader - but also a petty, and incompetent thing. As I said earlier, it would have been easy for Carl to portray the Marines in a more evil, violent, oppressive, gestapo like way, but that's not what is in the actual image.

I'm just saying that the image contains more allusions to The Trouble than to Life of Brian.

The image portrays them as evil, oppressive, Gestapo like way - arresting people for political dissent. It's obvious the ganger is arrested for dissent which probably carries death penalty, while a petty crime of vandalism would merely put him in penal legion.

Gestapo arrested people (including for being dissenters, writing dissenter graffiti and distributing leaflets) and them tortured them in captivity. Shooting people and then planting evidence is something done in countries that pretend to be democratic and usually prevented by law from open murder. Open tyrannies have official secret police that has licence to torture people.

It's not incompetent. It's competent and intentional. Arresting people for dissent is a part of imperial policy, not just petty behaviour.

You're ignoring all the historical facts about dictatorships to push your theory about petty incompetence. Shooting him would be petty and incompetent. Arresting him and putting to torture allows to obtain information about other dissenters and official public execution allows to strike fear into population.

Zhu Bajie wrote:
AranaszarSzuur wrote:Crushing dissent is characteristic for tyranny and the Imperium is supposed to be the bloodiest regime imaginable..


Just like the bloody Romans. Hence the Pythonesque gag and multiple references to Life of Brian. It's satire.

Except that it's not a gag. Pythonesque gags are taking a familiar situation and making it absurd. It's just a trope about dictatorial regimes played straight. It's just a reality of Imperial occupation.

In Life of Brian the scene was a joke because the Roman soldier gave Brian a grammar lesson instead of the expected result of sending him to torture and having him executed for being a dissenter as expected.

Torture and execution was a reasonable expectation basing on recent history (Nazi occupation of Europe, Soviet regimes, etc.). The movie turned it into a joke by subverting the expectation of horrible consequences. Soldiers acting as law enforcement wasn't a joke but historical reality for many oppressed people.

The scene from Monty Python is so iconic because people have historical background that allows them to understand what should happen. The scene is hilarious because we know from movies, books, history lessons, etc. that writing slogans against occupants was serious business and we know what happened to people who were caught. We see the terror of the protagonist (which we also know represents Jesus Christ) and expect that perhaps that's exactly what will get him crucified.
The gag subverts the expectation by the threatening imperial enforcer giving him a grammar lesson and making him write anti-imperial slogan 100 times instead.

When one comes from the same historical background that makes the Monty Python scene so hilarious, one understands what the ganger being arrested means. Perhaps one may be inspired to create a battle where the Imperial player defends an Imperial prison and the ganger's friends are trying to break him out.
Perhaps he talked and now Space Marines are assaulting a secret rebel compound.
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