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Shaun

Member
I am unsure if this is the correct section of this Forum but i am putting here my Warhammer Fantasy Dwarf Army List. This is a small force designed around 4th edition (this is my only Army Book for Dwarf atm) ... but it is easily transelateable to any of the eight editions/releases of Warhammer Fantasy.

Dwarf Lord; warhammer, crossbow, heavy armour and shield, Master Rune of Swiftness, Rune of Smiting, Curse Rune, Rune of Stone, Rune of Spell Eating, Master Rune of Spite, Rune of Passage, Rune of Luck.

24 Crossbowdwarfs; shields, split into two groups each with a Standard Bearer carrying a magical standard enscribed with the Rune of Warding and one with the Rune of Battle. Note - depending on the game and opponent and my plan the two groups do not always have to be equal - a 19/5 split works with giving my Lord a nice regiment to bodyguard.

Big Stone Thrower; 3 crew wearing light armour, Rune of Disguise, Rune of Accuracy and Rune of Seeking. This can start to game hidden and generally in range of all enemies.

This is a small force equalling about 1,000 points in 4th edition. All available dwarfs have crossbows and i think my Lord is quite the character/monster killer...

Thoughts?
 

jon_1066

Member
To me this misses the point of Oldhammer. You have come at it the wrong way. Who is the dwarf lord? Why is he wandering around with 2 dozen crossbow men? Where did he get all those runes from? What is his back story? How is he going to be painted? What colours? Why? Who is he going to fight and why? What's his story?
 

Shaun

Member
Ah ...

His name is King Merrin of Karak Azgul Gandak - a stronghold south of the Sour Sea - where the Worlds Edge Mountains meet the Bitter Sea ... the crossbowdwarfs and big stone thrower are his personal retinue ... although in large games he shall ofcourse bring more troops ... my standards and emblems and colours i was thinking black and white with space and stars and planets and moons to be painted ...

Here in this thread i was putting down the facts and fundamentals of my list ... but please let it be known the dwarfs of Karak Azgul Gandak favour Frog Swarms (i plan to include some in my collection) and i have plans for a Dwarf Hero riding a Giant Frog (same stats as Giant Scorpion/Spider)
 
Why are you posting this list? Do you want us to "critique" it so you tweak it to be a tournament beater? Im not sure how that works. Better to post up pics of your army in a cool setting and then find some players to test it against, surely?
 

Fimm McCool

Member
Hi Shaun,

I hope you don't feel got-at by the responses here. Nobody means their replies nastily it's just that this is quite a different place to other gaming forums. Oldhammer approaches things mostly from character and background, so rating lists (something more usually associated with tournament power-play) isn't something that happens much. The community is far more likely to be interested in a list built around a theme or piece of background than just drawn up points values from a book. Sounds like you have something interesting going with the frog thing, so would be good to hear how that came about (from an army fluff point of view) and see your army develop from there.
 
Yeah, your army sounds really interesting and I'd love to see it (frogs and all!) , but I think for the majority of us, points are secondary to the story, and a lot of us don't even use the army books.

In the past I've even had 'blind' battles where we've just put together a 'cool looking' army each, and only worked the points out after the battle, to see what the odds were according to the rules.
 

Golgfag1

Moderator
Hi Shaun,

For a 4th edition large scouting party - its a reasonable force, as you say a hero to take on the other sides hero/monster, a missile section to soften them up on the way in, with a stone thrower to drop a large rock on any formations that may survive the hail of crossbow bolts .

However, it doesn't really sing a picture of a grizzled veteran leading a band of stout hearted dwarves adventuring against impossible odds either - Why not consider - for your next unit/hero to join the warband, taking a party of axe wielding berserkers or halfings, pygmies or ogre/s etc has allies and weave a story of how they become so - now that would be a tale to tell. 8-)

Paul / Golgfag1
 

Orjetax

Member
Shaun":3pfmuqwl said:
Huh.

Ah well i misjudged this forum.

Differences of opinions exist.

For my part, I think discussions about what is effective on the table under old editions or what fun options exist in old army lists ought to be welcome here.

I am more of Rogue Trader/2d ed 40k guy myself, so I have no insight to offer on what you ask about. But I do like the idea of a frog-mounted dwarf hero . . .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

jon_1066

Member
Shaun":8vr3vh7l said:
Ah ...

His name is King Merrin of Karak Azgul Gandak - a stronghold south of the Sour Sea - where the Worlds Edge Mountains meet the Bitter Sea ... the crossbow dwarfs and big stone thrower are his personal retinue ... although in large games he shall of course bring more troops ... my standards and emblems and colours i was thinking black and white with space and stars and planets and moons to be painted ...

... but please let it be known the dwarfs of Karak Azgul Gandak favour Frog Swarms (i plan to include some in my collection) and i have plans for a Dwarf Hero riding a Giant Frog (same stats as Giant Scorpion/Spider)

Now that sounds great. This place is definitely in the - "here is something I built - hope you like it" camp. To be honest who can remember what a certain 4th edition character or what have you did? Few, who really cares? Even less. The fact is that earlier editions of Warhammer were not balanced, the points values were guides at best. Trying to min/max them will break the game.
 

Shaun

Member
Ah i see ... all is well.

I will try to keep to the raw character and creation of the hobby hereabouts and discuss numbers and tactics elsewhere.

All good and yes, in particular i like frog swarms :)
 

Tuskerton

Member
Hey Shaun, hope you post some pics of the dwarfs as you're painting them up. In particular, I can't wait to see the Battle Frog/War Frog or whatever the correct title is!!
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
jon_1066":33px5e1d said:
The fact is that earlier editions of Warhammer were not balanced, the points values were guides at best. Trying to min/max them will break the game.

That's not a fact! That's an opinion. :) Obviously I only mention it as my opinion differs. At least, in my experience the WFB2e points system does a good job of predicting the outcome of a battle (i.e. generally a side with more points on the table wins).

Orjetax":33px5e1d said:
For my part, I think discussions about what is effective on the table under old editions or what fun options exist in old army lists ought to be welcome here.

Yarp.

FWIW, I've roughly translated Shauns list in my head to WFB2e - so I don't know what the runes do. it's very much a stand and fire army, with very low manoeuvrability. I think, personally there is too much invested in the hero, and because of the manouvarability issues it's unlikely he'll get into combat to become effective. Some more manoeuvrable HtH troops to defend the flanks from quick cavalry attacks wouldn't go amiss.

I feel the stonethrower is a bit weird for such a small army, can't really imagine them laying siege to anything. Maybe they're on their way to join up with other clans at a great siege, or have hastily constructed the stonethrower, or perhaps they're on a ceremonial march, taking an ancestral heirloom on a weird pilgrimage to an ancient battle site.

Frog themed dwarf army? That's great.
 

jon_1066

Member
Zhu Bajie":3mkq02cs said:
jon_1066":3mkq02cs said:
The fact is that earlier editions of Warhammer were not balanced, the points values were guides at best. Trying to min/max them will break the game.

That's not a fact! That's an opinion. :) Obviously I only mention it as my opinion differs. At least, in my experience the WFB2e points system does a good job of predicting the outcome of a battle (i.e. generally a side with more points on the table wins).

...

Something along this line is actually stated in the 2nd edition rule book where it discusses points values and gives the example of a creature with 10 stats for everything but can't move.

Points are what lead to the crap fest that Warhammer became where the bulk of the decision points in the game was in deciding what to put on the table rather than fighting the battle.
 

Zhu Bajie

Member
IMHO Where it turned to crap was army lists telling you what you can or can't do with the points allocation, and the move away from PV being purely descriptive of the troops capabilities. But as you say, using PVs as a tool to min-max army selections, leads to a whole bunch of nonsense. Properly worked out PVs remain a useful guide to determining overall troop/army strength, and for reasonably balancing scenario design.

The Extreme Creature in WFB2, it's intentionally silly and just there to highlight a point - the PV system isn't there to handle ridiculous extremes (100 attacks, 100 wounds!), it's baseline is the 5PV human troop, everything else is relative to that. Arguably a fairer, more accurate system would be to average everything on the tabletop of any given scenario and recalculate the troops PVs relative to that average, but more often than not the WFB2e PV system that Richard and Hal designed provides a good-enough indicator of force strength.
 

Shaun

Member
Zhu Bajie ... my band of dwarfs are a small force designed to represent my Lord and his personal retinue - i imagine them quite casually bringing the Big Stone Thrower with them in times of danger ... i shall ofcourse include other regiments and troop types in larger games ... i particularly like Long Drongs Slayer Pirates ...

I appreciate the feedback and i shall get some pics for you guys.

Cheers
 
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