BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game


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Post Mon May 05, 2014 1:19 am

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

I have read and considered your post (that took a while!).

In my experience every turn will take an hour (middle aged men with prostrate, hobbie and cigarette stops) plus brunch, lunch, tiffing, cakes and tea breaks.

So my suggestion is that we follow your lead to award VP and also set Strategic Time at every complete turn (i.e. orcs/chaos bash, 'umans/halfings bash). There is no way on Nurgle's clean earth that we will complete 5 turns then do ST.

It could be (and I have yet to delve into my Siege book) that at the start of each turn cycle we declare ST and those in base to base contact with supplies (woodland game, farmers crop or livestock, trees for construction of new war machines or fuel) then benefit in some specified way.

In addition, we have not considered the possibility of reinforcements. What if a fast cavalry group ran to the next border town in ST?

Of course, all this freedom is the beauty of WFB3.
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Post Mon May 05, 2014 3:16 am

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

So my suggestion is that we follow your lead to award VP and also set Strategic Time at every complete turn (i.e. orcs/chaos bash, 'umans/halfings bash). There is no way on Nurgle's clean earth that we will complete 5 turns then do ST.

It could be (and I have yet to delve into my Siege book) that at the start of each turn cycle we declare ST and those in base to base contact with supplies (woodland game, farmers crop or livestock, trees for construction of new war machines or fuel) then benefit in some specified way.


I'm sure we've managed a quicker rate of getting through turns in the past but I take your point. I'm leaning towards the VP option myself and recording that every turn makes sense.What do we think about other benefits from coppices/farmsteads?

Farms/food sources give you back a certain number (D6, 2D6?) of casualties each turn. This could be used to create a reinforcement pool that could be drawn on in subsequent turns.
Woods give you a certain number of points that can be spent on adding defense points to castle wall sections/gates to represent them being shored up with additional timber. Farmsteads could also be fortified with these points - adding to the number of hitpoints/wounds the building itself has. Depending on having the scenery to use, you could also use these points to build palisades round the farm steads. We could use the Sapper rules for this - 1" per turn and 1 timber point per inch. As ordinary troops aren't as skilled as sappers then twice the number would be needed to build at the same rate of a 2 man sapper team - 4 troops to build 1" of palisade per turn. Troops building pallisades or reinforcing castle sections wouldn't be able to move. This could also be true of troops sending back food supplies from farms. This could also have an impact on the number of supplies consumed if we're going down that road.

For reinforcements I was thinking of just using the trailing force rules from 3rd ed. but after a certain number of turns had passed. Perhaps sending a messenger and bodyguard of fast cavalry could speed this up and bring on the reinforcements earlier on in the game. Or we could roll each turn to see if they turn up with a +1 modifier each turn so the more turns that pass the more likely they are to turn up?

As we'd discussed using some ideas from Warmaster too, here's my thoughts. I'd like to keep 90% of the WFB/Siege rules for combat, shooting, etc. I quite like the command phase from Warmaster though - issuing orders and making command tests depending on how far units are away from their officers/general or moving on their own initiative if close to the enemy. It also puts a little risk into the game that you won't be able to move all your troops if you fail a command test which would certainly speed up a turn!

If we added in the ideas for the strategic phase and combined it with the movement phase as the first phase of the turn then we could be onto a winner.

In fact in terms of food, we could assume that our game represents the final phase of a long and drawn out siege. The good guys start the game with a certain (depleted) number of supply points and we deduct the necessary number each turn in the command/strategic phase. Should they have insufficient supplies to feed the number of models inside the castle then they start losing troops to starvation and sickness. Defending farm steads would then give the defenders a steady income of supply points - hopefully enough to keep the castle defenders alive. Troops outside the castle walls would be assumed to be foraging.

Love the defender's eye view by the way - spot on! :lol:

Do we have the return of Brave sir Robin? :mrgreen:

Here's a few pics from my Orc's Drift game to give you an idea of the sort of scenery I've got for famrsteads

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Post Mon May 05, 2014 8:27 am

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

I've got eight or nine of the pmc resin thatched village buildings I can bring, including a tower and a great hall/saxon church, if that would help.
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Post Mon May 05, 2014 9:59 am

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

Sounds good - thanks Rab :D
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Post Mon May 05, 2014 2:46 pm

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

Man this sounds like fun! I always loved siege games..

Cheers,

Blue
3rd Edition will rise AGAIN!!!!
My Painting collecting...and sometimes gaming Blog: http://bluesmarauders.blogspot.com/
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Post Tue May 06, 2014 12:43 pm

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

Sorry you can't be with us Blue!
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Post Tue May 06, 2014 7:39 pm

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

Thantsants your scenery is wicked! Thanks for posting the pics - very inspirational and lovely painted minis. I imagine with Mister Rab's thatched offerings this will make a great scene.

In terms of scenery there are three things to my mind (listmania beware):

1. the physical geography of the field. If I remember your original scenario correctly it's hills on one side for attackers, a castle on the other deployment side for defenders with a river in between. I'm sure Foundry will have a board with a river and hills?

2. the structure and layout of the fortress. We plan on using four (or more) with doubled battlements so do we want to create a solid wall to bridge a pass (something like the Black Gate) with small urban settlement beyond, a marcher fortress with double entrance and toll gate or something else...Something to think about practically before we turn up and play big Lego. Also have you painted yours? (I'm hoping not!)

3. agreed objectives and scenario bonuses (farmsteads, coppices). I have a few hedges, walls etc and coppices - basically 3 trees per CD scenery base and about the same number of chopped down (does this open the avenue for Supply Points/ VP/ other conditions for D6 turns until the resource is depleted? and what about farmsteads? A unit of 20 will deplete a farm in a very short time, more rapidly if larger humanoids or halfings...). I have a couple of urban buildings (see 2 above) and - after a weekend of B&Q - a functional farmstead (once painted maybe Brave Sir Robin will inspect and I'll post it up).

I found a copy of Warmaster on line and the Command phase gets my vote. Love it! I'm still reading the Siege rules, especially the SP, which start differently for attackers and defenders and strongly hint on a GM. I was a bit concerned to read that halflings consume double SP and die twice as fast from starvation!
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Post Tue May 06, 2014 7:52 pm

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

I won't know exactly what I can bring over until I figure out transportation and weight but if I can I will bring a herd of sheep (as seen in the raid on Conflagration-on-Sea) and hopefully some siege stuff for the Moot. Things like cauldrons of boiling stew and the like.
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Post Tue May 06, 2014 8:16 pm

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

Just John wrote:Things like cauldrons of boiling stew and the like.


Sheep and stew. Excellent :D
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Post Tue May 06, 2014 9:59 pm

Re: BOYL The Engines of Avalone Siege game

Mr Furious wrote:
Just John wrote:Things like cauldrons of boiling stew and the like.


Sheep and stew. Excellent :D


I'm reminded of a certain exchange from Zulu...

Corporal, I want all these people out of here. Douse these fires and turn the boilers over.

- They’ve got soup in them.

- Pour it on the fires. Get a rifle.

- A rifle? But I don’t…

Mr Chard? Mr Chard?

- Commissary Dalton, is it?

- That is correct.

- You’ve just asked this man… To pour the soup on the fires.

See that he does it. All these bags of maize inside the perimeter. I don’t want these tents providing cover for the enemy.

Does he know what it’s like to make soup for 100 men in this heat?

Don’t distress yourself, dear fellow. There’s your own officer - Go and speak with him.

- Yes, sir.

... Alright, man, is it true?

Beg your pardon, sir.

About the soup, sir.

What about the soup?

This gentleman, sir, said to put it on the fire.

- He did?

- We have thatched roofs here. No need to make the Zulus a present of fire.

Yes.

Then get on with it.


I can also imagine a similar reaction from our Halfling contingent to such ruthless scorched earth tactics! :lol:

Which reminds me - we need to get in as many references as we can into the game to spice up the pun-fu and narrative. We've got Birnam Wood out of Macbeth hopefully showing up with John's Treemen coming to the rescue, not to mention any number of Tolkien refereces to the Eagles saving everyone at the end. Zulu references have become something of a nevessity/tradition since I did Orc's Drift. I'm sure Mr F.'s cavalry will be doing a good impression of the Light Brigade.

John - some sheep would be lovely as would cauldrons and stew pots. I'd love to see a Hot Pot Catapult in action if anyone has one.

Cheers Mr F. - it was good fun and most satisfying to put together. Your last post about scenery, fortress layout and objectives is just what I was going to ask everyone about.

I'm going to get in touch with Foundry to let them know what we're planning and what our requirements might be. I've got a list of players who have signed up already - can you all let me know whether you'll be wanting brekkie (a sausage sandwich at 9.30am I suspect), lunch or dinner so I can give Marcus a vague idea of numbers who want to be fed.

The other main thing we need to think about is what size of table(s) we want and any other scenery we might need.

The geography of the scenario can be flexible although we have used this table a few times at Foundry (assuming it has been moved to the new place) which features a river, tracks and other features.

Image

As it's a bit lumpy, I think we'd need another (flat) table joined on the end to accommodate the fortress though which must make the whole thing 6 x 12 ft. Too big?

Otherwise I have a river, hills, woods, etc so a large flat table (three 6x4's pushed together?) might be better. As soon as we start placing farmsteads everywhere I can see it all getting quite dense with scenery - not a bad thing!

Image

I also had a vague idea of making the edge of the table the ready zone with Orc camps and Siege machines so that units active on the "tabletop" would be deploying some way (1 ft?) into the table anyway and thus avoiding spending most of the day tramping across the table towards the distant castle.

As for the castle - I'm for a Marcher Castle or Fastness set up as near to the centre of the table as possible, completely surrounded by Orc camps and earthworks. :twisted:

(I have painted a lot of mine by the way and primed the rest I'm afraid! I've gone with a black undercoat and am drybrushing it grey and white.)

I'm going to have a more in depth think about farms, woods and supplies tonight but we are going to need a few of them. If an attacking army (and to speed up the game and make supplies more important - the defender as well) needs to expend 1 supply point per 20 troops, 2 points for 21 to 40 troops and more for large humanoids and Halflings we're going to get through quite a few supplies. A very rough estimate is that my Goblinoid horde would need something like 40 odd points each strategic turn!

Each army will of course start off with some supplies (say 3 turns worth unless you're a greedy Halfling with no idea of rationing!) and we could up the amount of supplies a farm/coppice yields to D10 or 2D6 but I do think we're going to need at least 5 farms and say 3 coppices. All numbers plucked fairly arbitrarily out of the air at the moment...

I found a copy of Warmaster on line and the Command phase gets my vote. Love it! I'm still reading the Siege rules, especially the SP, which start differently for attackers and defenders and strongly hint on a GM. I was a bit concerned to read that halflings consume double SP and die twice as fast from starvation!


Which is why I was so happy when John said he was bringing the little chaps over! :lol:

Should all fit well into the narrative I'm cooking up that should fit nicely with your intro too.

I think a strategic phase at the end/beginning of each turn could work quite well.

Sorry about the essay!
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