Tips for painting metal models?

Hi guys, I've restarted the hobby recently and have mostly been new painting plastic models - but now I've started on some older OOP metal stuff and have plans for a mostly Rogue Trader Warband.

I'm finding it more difficult to paint the metal models. The paint doesn't seem to want to stick so much even even with the same undercoat as the plastic stuff. I'm using GW Chaos black and I've given all the models a good scrub with warm soapy water before undercoating - but they still have a few patches in the deeper recesses of the models that don't get any paint and have to be pained in by hand afterwards. I kind of remember this happening to me years ago with metal models too, is there any known way to avoid this?

I also seem to be draw into painting the models more thickly for some reason compared to plastic. There's some great painters here so I thought this might be the place to ask for a few tips on painting metal models if you've got any

Any help would be appreciated, thanks!

do you undercoat using spray? i had similar issues myself in the early days but i found that using spray undercoating resolved the issue.

Also, the gw chaos black isn't primer anymore. Get yourself a good primer and use that.

Ahh ok yes I've been using Chaos Black Spray bought recently.

I just picked up some Duplicolor Sandable Primer that a lot of people seem to recommend around the web, hopefully that will stick to metal a bit better.

Thanks!

I also use a primer first.
Spray primer covers plastic better because the detail is softer as plastic can not have any undercut or it will not come out of the mold. Not so with metal ... so the detail is sometimes deeper and more undercut ... so you have to work a bit harder with the the spray to hit the model from multiple angles to ensure you get the whole model ....and even then you will not get every hole on the chainmail. A bit of touching up with black paint on the brush is almost a given.

Sometimes when I have bought stripped models the surface does seem more ... 'paint repellent' ... even after a spray primer. I don't have a solution to this it is just an observation. I have found that a couple of thin coats of paint does the trick Somehow the first coat of paint gives the second one something to hang onto?

Its worth mentioning that most household soaps/detergents contain stuff designed to leave a residue on the surface being cleaned - ie washing-up liquid leaves a shiny film on stuff to enhance that freshly cleaned look... great for your dishes but not so great for getting paint to stick. I use decorators sugar soap on models, diluted a bit, which works pretty well most of the time.

Even acrylic type paints/primers take time to fully cure, though they 'dry' pretty quickly. I prefer to leave primed models for 24-48hrs before painting to make sure its properly cured. I also prime with an airbrush so I can get into all those awkward nooks and crannies on models more easily since I find it a bore to go over them with a brush and its much cheaper than buying spray cans

Ok thanks for the tips

I'll try a few lights coats and use some different soap when washing the models before priming.

I don't have an airbrush but will probably buy one in a few months after my IG army is finished.

Cheers

One other thing to watch this time of year is the temperature when you're spraying the prime coat - anything below about 50F / 10C and you may have trouble with paint not sticking.

Jeff McC":3wnsx999 said:

One other thing to watch this time of year is the temperature when you're spraying the prime coat - anything below about 50F / 10C and you may have trouble with paint not sticking.

Click to expand...

+1

Also different primes have varying coverage/adherence, I often use an AP grey prime spray for its neutral colour but its adherence and resiliences is wa under that of any other black prime I know of.

Jeff McC":1y184me5 said:

One other thing to watch this time of year is the temperature when you're spraying the prime coat - anything below about 50F / 10C and you may have trouble with paint not sticking.

Click to expand...

Humidity in the air could also be a problem, too much moisture and the spray paint will not stick to the miniature...

use google, lol

I will give a few tips over this because you will get many answers but there is some caveats depending on future choices you make.

1 Not all "primers" are primers some are spray paint some are true primers. This matters as the primer really acts as a "tooth" for the paint to adhere to, especially when it comes to metal, with plastic it's often just as ideal for the same reason.

2 Some primers can be REALLY damn stubborn if you mess up or ever want to strip the mini at a later date for whatever reason. Currently Rust-Oleum 2x matt black and matt white are my go to primers. They are real primers and while initially I had some hesitation over the 2x ( no worries now ) it goes on smooth as possible and is solid quality primer for a reasonable price. Naturally there is other brands but you will run into many similar situations with White just like the official GW one and some others, so far knock on wood with this brand.

It's best to do this from about 1 foot away and a quick back and forth sweeping motion, you may have to do this twice but it's wiser to get a solid coverage this ways without spraying it on too thickly. Hence doing a group at once in this way will make cans last a lot longer.

I cannot stress enough how vital it can be to shake most any spray can for at least 3-5 minutes. This greatly helps the process and is often the cause of most headaches. Years ago when the new plastic multi part marines came out ( I think what...98 or so ? ) I made the mistake of having built and cleaned all the mold lines, only to not shake the can enough and it left a horrible "Gritty" white primer over all of them...never again.

3 One personal tip for future, it's often best to give a light paint coat by hand from a pot over the bare metal by hand first. Then spray...why ? well two reasons: any spots you miss will already be coated/touched up and secondly the underlaying hand acrylic paint coat will usually allow you to strip both plastic and metal with 99% rubbing alcohol. If you only use a stubborn primer first this probably will not be enough for 99% rubbing alcohol to strip, the under layer get's around this problem if you run into it without knowing till it's too late.

The problem with certain "stubborn" primers is they are so intense you can't really strip them without industrial grade gel stripper. The later will eat/melt both plastic and resin but not metal. This is a big deal if you want to preserve or repaint old plastic minis that you can't easily replace.

4 REALLY consider hard what colors you will be using first and the pigment quality of the paints themselves. If for example you still use a lot of Coat D'Arms paints you will be aware the coverage is all over the place to truly awful for many of the reds yellows and darker greens. White is virtually a must in these cases, if you are using for example GW's "base" paints white or black will be fine along with other companies with similar properties to their paint lines. It also needs to be said both White and Black primers will give either cooler brighter finishes or overall darker finishes to the paints.

5 ALWAYS varnish any metal painted minis when finished. AVOID ever touching the mini before this if you do not use gloves. The oil from your fingers will rub off/chip the paint away. Especially if you are gluing on pieces in sub assembly style and you will ruin hours of work. The varnish will actually let you use these with low level abuse while keeping them undamaged. I would personally suggest a spray on gloss for the best protection layer and then a spray on/or hand layer of matt varnish after. You can also do some cool effects by painting the metallic areas gloss and the rest matt.

I prime with gesso, applied with a brush, takes a little longer than spray, but I have total control over where the gesso goes at all times.

Why gesso rather than acrylic?

Gesso is a weird choice as isn't it a hard base designed to also fill in gaps when you paint on canvas and stuff? on miniatures, surely that would soften some of the details and light textures..

If lightly applied with a brush - which is what I do - gesso will not obscure any details. It also shrinks as it dries.
The idea of using watercolors came to me after getting very frustrated with the grainy texture of many - even high quality - acrylic paints, the difficulty in blending them and how very, very quickly they dry out, even if you close the lids religiously.
I've also tried oil paints, which some historical painters like to use on 54 mm models, but their drying time is measured in weeks or months, which is ok if you're doing a display piece and deliberately taking your time, but not viable for armies.
My memories of using Airfix and Humbrol enamels are...not so great. Thick, goopy, almost unmixable without getting mud, fumes will give you a headache after about an hour or so, require nasty chemicals for cleanup.....
The set I use the most is a watercolor box made for school children, Scriptum brand, probably at least 20-some-odd years old and still as good as new. I have several others, from Pelikan, Jolly, Yarka and some off-brands, as well as a whole tool box full of tubes from Winsor & Newton, Grumbacher and many other companies.
Watercolors do take some getting used to, they remain active until you actually seal the model, so blending can be done anytime, highlighting is rarely even necessary over a white primer, happens almost by itself, similar to contrast paints. Shading is more of a challenge, washes have to be very carefully controlled so they don't turn into a mud bath and I do a lot of darklining, which used to be the norm back in the 70s - see 'enamels', above.
Which requires very fine, high quality brushes, my favorite were Yarka, but since they are no longer available, I've switched to Roubloff, Creative Mark are also good.
I find the bristles of Winsor & Newton brushes too short.
I like how bright and vibrant the colors are, much like what you see in White Dwarf until about 2000 or so, before everyone switched to black primer and everything got dull & drab. "Grimdark', I suppose......
Pigment is very rich in all but the cheapest watercolors, even yellow comes out nice and bright in only 1 or 2 coats.
The only things I still use acrylics for are terrain pieces and buildings.

Talens Van Gogh block watercolours that I had many years ago got very vibrant yellow and other colours. They had very nice finish and plenty of pigment. They're not the best of the best but they're very close to professional grade.

Don't know what gesso do you use but I used from Talens and LeFranc and some others. They, always dry matt and sandy on feel. Golden Acrylics Gesso was the best I ever tried. Price is other story but finish was more slick. I've use it on canvas though.

I used to primed miniatures with brush, forgot all about it hehe Will start that.

Have you tried Holbein Acrylic Gouache? It's matt finish and it does behave like gouache for short period before it turns into solid.

For oils, I think should be used mediums for faster drying but then again crack could appear after oil is dried.