To convert or not, that's the question

So I'm interested, do you convert your old lead?

Do you fall into the category of "No! That's sacrilege", or "It's my model, I'll do what I want with it" or some other stance?

For me, i like to be creative and perhaps try and improve/personalise the model or adjust it so it meets the theme of my warband/army more, but it is never a decision i take lightly. Some old models, in my opinion, are perfect and need no converting what so ever anyway.

Should we even consider cutting up, what is effectively, a piece of history?

So what's your opinion; after all we've bought the model (or retained it from our youth) so they evidently have a strong value to us...

I'm half and half. I certainly look at figures as gaming pieces and I'm less inclined to see them as precious jewels and I'm also a convertor by nature, I like fiddling with figures and making them unique. I do think twice about hacking at some older figures though, especially if they are 'rare' or at least cost me a bob or two. It depends on what I want or need them for. For instance I'm after a particular character model and I know the image in my head doesn't exist so I need to do a headswap and get the greenstuff out in order to achieve the character I'm after. Another situation is where there are only a couple of versions of the figure and I want more variation in a unit, currently I'm thinking of Estalian handgunners or a confrontation gang, swapping heads within the range of figures hence giving them slightly different poses seems like a sensible thing to do but would other s gasp and point at the sacrilege? I know when I saw http://www.lead-adventure.de/index.php?topic=62119.75 thread on LAF i nearly choked at what he was doing to the old RT figures but I can see his reasoning and it'll end up a nice project. Also Realm If Chaos pretty much demands that you convert your figures, It's pretty hard to get around it, so what are you supposed to do?

Generally I won't mess with OOP models unless I've got duplicates.

It's easy for me. =) I'm a bit of a purist, so for collecting purposes I don't convert or clip off base tabs or integral bases. Even if it would result in a better model in the end, I want them to be unmodified. What other people do is none of my business and I love it when someone creates fantastic new models by mashing up a few existing ones.

I have a bunch of old broken models kicking about, but will probably never do anything with them as I'm simply too lazy (or have too little hobby time) to muck about with conversions in general.

Though I've torn my share of models apart, I try to avoid it as much as possible now. Anyway I still have all the remnants of all the models I've dismembered and When I get broken models I'm actually very happy because I can convert them and model them even more with no remorse.

I do keep tabs and glue them under the base if I have to remove them and I allow myself to drill the gun barrels.

stone cold lead":1o7bevt7 said:

Generally I won't mess with OOP models unless I've got duplicates.

Click to expand...

^ What he said.

Skarsnik & Old Lead":1clxkmbi said:

stone cold lead":1clxkmbi said:

Generally I won't mess with OOP models unless I've got duplicates.

Click to expand...

^ What he said.

Click to expand...

Can I ask why? I'm generally intrigued because I flit between the two polar opposite stances of wanting to leave oop models pristine and wanting to be creative and altering the models. I wish I had duplicates of every oop model I own!

phreedh":1clxkmbi said:

It's easy for me. =) I'm a bit of a purist, so for collecting purposes I don't convert or clip off base tabs or integral bases. Even if it would result in a better model in the end, I want them to be unmodified. What other people do is none of my business and I love it when someone creates fantastic new models by mashing up a few existing ones.

I have a bunch of old broken models kicking about, but will probably never do anything with them as I'm simply too lazy (or have too little hobby time) to muck about with conversions in general.

Click to expand...

I understand this entirely. I actively try and buy broken oop models off ebay so that I don't feel such guilt when I'm being "creative" with them, but the thing is I prefer the converting to the painting side of the hobby and I spend a disproportionate amount of my [limited] time on this.

I've actually started to buy some current (!) GW plastic models to feed my converting habit, so as to save the OOP models from the knife and clippers!

Thanks for your responses!

Bane":165qqm0g said:

Skarsnik & Old Lead":165qqm0g said:

stone cold lead":165qqm0g said:

Generally I won't mess with OOP models unless I've got duplicates.

Click to expand...

^ What he said.

Click to expand...

Can I ask why? I'm generally intrigued because I flit between the two polar opposite stances of wanting to leave oop models pristine and wanting to be creative and altering the models. I wish I had duplicates of every oop model I own!

Click to expand...

I'm a collector first, rather than a painter, modeller or gamer (although I do a bit of all three). So for me the 'completeness' of the model is paramount. I don't count a converted model, a broken model or one missing it's base tab as being complete, so I would trade them away and look to find a complete one in the future.

However, if I have duplicates it's open season, although my limited modelling skills usually limit it to a weapon swap or conversion to a musician or standard bearer.

Ah I see. As a collector I imagine the the models have to be paint free too? Also do you display your collection in a particular way, for example is it based on a Citadel catalogue or as an "army", in a glass cabinet etc etc? Sorry for all the questions but I think I may be at some kind of crossroads in terms of my hobby priorities and I also wonder how we are all linked, yet separated by our hobby (and perhaps trying to justify my own investment of time and expense too).

I have another approach.

I recast the original model that I want to butcher - that way I know I am serious . I just can't bring myself to cut up old lead anymore. It's a good thing to be able to recast for personal use as I want to butcher the f%^& out of my Slann. It is not as difficult as you might think to get good results. Selling recasts is heresy on my Moral compass though!

I convert as and when I feel like it (Yesterday I chopped up a Squat bike and a Zombie dragon), they are there to be enjoyed and played with.

theottovonbismark":314kwlw0 said:

I have another approach.

I recast the original model that I want to butcher - that way I know I am serious . I just can't bring myself to cut up old lead anymore. It's a good thing to be able to recast for personal use as I want to butcher the f%^& out of my Slann. It is not as difficult as you might think to get good results. Selling recasts is heresy on my Moral compass though!

Click to expand...

That's a good approach. I've just starting recasting some parts of models, not whole models yet though, but I like the idea, it would ease my conscience (is this what this thread is all about for me - the morals of oldhammer?!).

I have fallen foul of buying a recast which was not advertised as such, I was properly pissed off. As you say, recasts have their place (to be chopped up!) and I wouldn't mind if they were listed as such because I would buy them, but obviously at a much reduced price!

Chico":314kwlw0 said:

I convert as and when I feel like it (Yesterday I chopped up a Squat bike and a Zombie dragon), they are there to be enjoyed and played with.

Click to expand...

This is exactly where I came from, I'm just wavering at the moment towards preserving oop models. But perhaps there's enough people doing this already and I should just be hacksaw-happy...

I love converting. I enjoy it more than painting. So I'll chop even prized stuff to pieces - like Chico said, the minis are there for me to play with. And if that play involves blkades, drill bits and the occasional power tool, then so be it.
Proof: My Nurgle Oldbowl team as seen here: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=56&p=452&hilit=nurgle+team#p452

Bane":37fmle1x said:

Chico":37fmle1x said:

I convert as and when I feel like it (Yesterday I chopped up a Squat bike and a Zombie dragon), they are there to be enjoyed and played with.

Click to expand...

This is exactly where I came from, I'm just wavering at the moment towards preserving oop models. But perhaps there's enough people doing this already and I should just be hacksaw-happy...

Click to expand...

Same here, before coming to this place I had no remorses cutting in dragon ogres or chaos champions but now I won't even sever a head from a necromunda model... Aprt from that I love converting model without altering the donor model. i'm building a special demon ATM with a pink horror that will look completeley different but which I could just put in acetone to get it undamaged again.
Dave King does that kind of conversions too (well he's a pro sculptor...) and I like that approach.

Bane":d9ty08bx said:

Ah I see. As a collector I imagine the the models have to be paint free too? Also do you display your collection in a particular way, for example is it based on a Citadel catalogue or as an "army", in a glass cabinet etc etc? Sorry for all the questions but I think I may be at some kind of crossroads in terms of my hobby priorities and I also wonder how we are all linked, yet separated by our hobby (and perhaps trying to justify my own investment of time and expense too).

Click to expand...

Actually, I love to have them painted, although the process is painfully slow where I am concerned, and not up to the standard that you achieve. I have my painted models on display, but even the unpainted ones are painstakingly sorted, catalogued and stored according to range. I do paint armies to play with, but a unit in an army is almost always based around a particular range of figures, which can get pretty challenging when yo're trying to make up a unit of 20 guys from a range which only has 3 or 4 figures in it.

As an example, my current army project is to replicate this:



I have the 19 skeletons with scythes that I need but the 9 archers are proving quite troublesome to find.

Recasting is a big no-no for me, both on moral and legal grounds. The amount of recasts in the market is growing all the time, and I'm sure many of them started out as 'personal use' copies (which isn't any more legal than recasting to sell) which eventually found their way into the marketplace one way or another. I feel that as collectors, which we all are to a greater or lesser extent, we should work to keep the market as 'pure' as possible. Even if that means we can't have all of the toys we want.

I hate the whole: 'It's ok to recast because I can't afford the original and this is the only way to get it' argument. I can't afford a Ferrari, but that doesn't make it ok to resort to illegal methods to get my hands on one.

Skarsnik & Old Lead":i6efvftu said:

Recasting is a big no-no for me, both on moral and legal grounds. The amount of recasts in the market is growing all the time, and I'm sure many of them started out as 'personal use' copies (which isn't any more legal than recasting to sell) which eventually found their way into the marketplace one way or another. I feel that as collectors, which we all are to a greater or lesser extent, we should work to keep the market as 'pure' as possible. Even if that means we can't have all of the toys we want.

I hate the whole: 'It's ok to recast because I can't afford the original and this is the only way to get it' argument. I can't afford a Ferrari, but that doesn't make it ok to resort to illegal methods to get my hands on one.

Click to expand...

That's a very good counter-argument. As I said, I'm considering recasting just parts of oop models to add/convert with existing, genuine oop models - so the final model would very obviously be a personalised conversion rather than a full recast, therefore not diluting the purity of our pool of models and not trying to pretend to be authentic. I wouldn't buy a recast simply because it's cheaper than the original or try and pretend it is original, but I would be tempted to deliberately buy recasts to chop up which would sate my conversion desires and keep the authentic pool purer! Have I justified this to myself?

My moral compass is very much spinning at the moment with all these arguments!

Asslessman":i6efvftu said:

Same here, before coming to this place I had no remorses cutting in dragon ogres or chaos champions but now I won't even sever a head from a necromunda model... Aprt from that I love converting model without altering the donor model. i'm building a special demon ATM with a pink horror that will look completeley different but which I could just put in acetone to get it undamaged again.

Click to expand...

This is a good angle. Earlier in my life I used to be a Paintings and Furniture Conservator and two of the basic principles were stability and reversibility - anything that was added to improve the stability of a piece of art had to be both chemically and physically stable (and identifiable) from the original and also had to be reversible. For example a varnish soluble in say, petroleum spirits, was added over the top of the original painting before any retouching was completed, meaning that both the newly applied retouching and varnish could be removed using said petroleum spirit, but would not affect the 200 year old oil paint.

Does acetone remove greenstuff?

Here's an example of where I've kept the original model intact by adding a plastic head over the original (by some careful cutting of the plastic ogre head to fit over the orc head) and used greenstuff to disguise the join:



Perhaps this is the direction I need to take more, even if it requires more time and problem solving.

I think you have to go with what you feel most comfortable with. While I would never chop up one of my own figures, I'm not horrified by the prospect of someone else doing it. Once you buy the model it's yours to do with as you see fit.

Acetone removes greenstuff, milliput, epoxy glue, super glue, paint, varnish, plastic, anything but metal...

I mentionned this thinking about this particular convesrion you had made .
One option too could be to buy already damaged models for conversion purpose only. they're cheap and you can get stuff you wouldn't have otherwise. I'v done that a few times lately and I find it's a great solution since I feel a lot the way you do now.

For me it's a decision to be taken on a model by model basis. If I love the model (For nostalgia or beauty) then it doesn't get cut, but if it's not a favourite, then it's fair game.

I also take into consideration what it is being converted for; at the moment I'll cut almost any model, if it's for my Nurgle warband.

I can only echo many of the statements above and say that when ever possible I only covert classic figures that are already broken or damaged in some way. I guess that's the artifact conservator in me...if an item has integrity it should remain intact.

On the subject of recasts...While I'm not a fan of them being made...the ones that have come into my collection I feel comfortable cutting up to use as needed. In my case I came into a group of Marauder MM90 Chaos Dwarfs when I first started collecting again that were obvious recasts...soft detail...multiple mold lines...upper sections of weapons that were badly misshapen or missing altogether...very thin tabs that were no longer legible etc. These I have really enjoyed using as the base for conversions. My favorite of which is the CD I call the Green Knight...it employs one of the recast MM90's as its base...a sword that was broken off of another CD...and a helmet from White Knights Imperial Dwarf figures.





Cheers,

Blue