Foundry Scale?

How do Wargames Foundry miniatures measure up to mid to late 90's Citadel models? I've been looking at their Medieval and Renaissance knights and think they are a terrific match stylistically to early Warhammer (stylish enough to fit in with the fantastic monsters, yet reserved enough to let those monsters remain a spectacle). Before I drop my hard earned cash, though, I was wondering if they were a good fit in size. I know they are not slotta base, so I guess that will add a little height when I put them on standard 20mm plastic bases. But are the height and proportions (including the cavalry models) a good fit?

I bought a bunch of *ahem*, naked Pict berserkers from Foundry to add to my barbarian horde, they are a bit smaller overall, more realistically proportioned. I can provide comparison pics if needed

You probably know that some of the Baron's War (Bretonnian) and Late Medieval (Empire) ranges were sculpted by the Perry twins and originally were Citadel figures back in the glory days of Oldhammer. They do seem to be a fraction of a millimetre finer than the originals, but I understand that is something to do with maintaining moulds over a long time That might just be variation between figures in the same range.

Anyway, I have a bunch of them that will eventually see paint and form my long-intended Bret army alongside their "original" counterparts and, with their solid bases, are an absolutely perfect match. They are all (old and new) smaller than many modern figures from GW or other companies. Scale has crept since they were sculpted...

Thanks guys, comparison pics would definitely be appreciated! It's a little worrying to hear they are smaller, to be honest. They have to fit with "red phase" mid to late 90s Games Workshop metal figures to work for me.

Here's a size comparison for you Galadrin. I hope it's of some use. 1,4 and 6 are 80's Citadel figures, currently available in the Foundry WotR range, although these ones are the original 80's ones. Please bear in mind they're on slightly thinner bases than the others. The molds for the new ones are made from the old master figures, so I guess they're the same size. I don't have any but from photos I've seen they look a little 'chunkier' and better defined. Mold methods & materials have come some way since the 80's I guess. Nevertheless, to my eye they don't mix well with the red pack era Citadel stuff, they're too small - even if you stuck them onto plastic Citadel bases. Having said that, although the sculpts are over 30 years old now I love that range, and the Hundred Year's War range also. A project for the future I have in mind, using the Foundry late medievals, is a Burgundian Ordonnance army as some opponents for my Swiss in WAB. They'll also do duty as 3rd.ed. WFB Bretonnians, a bit like Dave Andrew's Bretonnians in the old Warhammer Armies.

Bretonnians but you get an idea of relative sizes of things.

I've lined these up with the soles of their feet level with one another. Left to right Foundry HYW spearman, Ex-Citadel ('85?) Foundry man-at-arms, Citadel Bretonnian retainer ('90/'91) and Citadel Bretonnian man-at-arms ('95).

I was hoping to find some good matches for my 90/91 era Bretonnians. The Foundry HYW stuff is the perfect style but sadly they're way too small and I was gutted to find that the ex-Citadel stuff was also a bit too small. I bought 4 different packs of men-at-arms and I think only 3 models are a bit bigger and match my other stuff. If you're not looking to mix and match though, going all in with Foundry/early Citadel will work fine.

Wow, that is quite a difference. I wasn't aware that Citadel itself had changed so much (it must have happened in the late 80s, I suppose). Well thanks for the heads up! If you have any cavalry, I'd love to see comparisons of the riders as well!

Edit:

I also found these comparisons: http://023.110mb.com/medcav.html

From the look of it, the Renaissance Knight riders are actually very close to GW scale—only the steeds are smallish. Can anyone confirm? If so, I might use them on GW steeds (or more likely, use my GW knights on Foundry steeds... I like the small horse look!).

The change to 'heroic' 28mm came in around 1992-3 for new models. Some of the older stuff, mostly monsters & such things, continued in the catalouges for a while but they were all gone by about the turn of the millenium I think. Why they didn't just say "OK, we're changing to 32mm" (an old and respected scale), is beyond me. I kind of resented GW for changing the size & style of their human mini's in particular so that you couldn't use them for anything except warhammer. It was also done, I believe, to prevent people building up their armies cheaply out of historical (not genuine GW!) mini's, which were now too small.

Ant4812":18ppct3m said:

The change to 'heroic' 28mm came in around 1992-3 for new models. Some of the older stuff, mostly monsters & such things, continued in the catalouges for a while but they were all gone by about the turn of the millenium I think. Why they didn't just say "OK, we're changing to 32mm" (an old and respected scale), is beyond me. I kind of resented GW for changing the size & style of their human mini's in particular so that you couldn't use them for anything except warhammer. It was also done, I believe, to prevent people building up their armies cheaply out of historical (not genuine GW!) mini's, which were now too small.

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GW figure sizes were all over the place though by the late 80's. Some of the Jes Goodwin elves are surprisingly dainty, the Empire and Bretonnian knights (Knights Panther, Knights of the High Helm, General's Retinue etc) are absolutely massive, and space marines vary quite a bit depending on the sculptor. I can understand the need to maintain a common size for things and how that would have been brought about as ranges were redesigned. I always thought the scale creep was partly a way to cram more easily identified detail into a model (not necessarily moar skullz!).

Could just be me being a cynical swine. Part of the reason, I remember reading somewhere, was that larger figures were supposed to be easier to sculpt and yeah, you can fit more detail onto them.

That's really interesting, because the most obvious change I could see with the different scales was that the later, larger scale minis became "stiffer" and less dynamic in posture (1990's Marauder figures, although I adore them, are a good example of this). It is almost as if the sculptors of the earlier minis, while they couldn't get as much detail on the surface of the models, compensated by giving them very lively poses. Compare, for instance, earlier and later Orcs!

Ant4812":1r1k6swx said:

I kind of resented GW for changing the size & style of their human mini's in particular so that you couldn't use them for anything except warhammer. It was also done, I believe, to prevent people building up their armies cheaply out of historical (not genuine GW!) mini's, which were now too small.

Click to expand...

The great irony in that is now most historical manufacturers have moved on to "heroic" 28mm now. For instance, although I think Foundry infantry won't work for me after all, I'm still considering some Artizan Landsknechts and maybe some Front Rank armoured footmen.

Galadrin":1dv9fu0s said:

Ant4812":1dv9fu0s said:

I kind of resented GW for changing the size & style of their human mini's in particular so that you couldn't use them for anything except warhammer. It was also done, I believe, to prevent people building up their armies cheaply out of historical (not genuine GW!) mini's, which were now too small.

Click to expand...

The great irony in that is now most historical manufacturers have moved on to "heroic" 28mm now. For instance, although I think Foundry infantry won't work for me after all, I'm still considering some Artizan Landsknechts and maybe some Front Rank armoured footmen.

Click to expand...

I find the Perry Twins plastic European Mercenaries make for a good midpoint between traditional and heroic scales.