Black lining

Asslessman

Member
This will appear like a stupid subject to some (no goat though) but I have to have you opinion guys on this subject.

Yesterday night, while getting the final details on my khorne champions, I realised teh result was not "readable" as I wanted it to be. I tried to blend the best I could, I tried to chosse good contrasts in my colours but I somehow lacked "definition", the result was far too blurry. I don't know why I did it but I stated to line all teh areas like I used to in my youth when drybrush and lining were the only 2 techniques I used (with excessive inking).
And BANG, magic happened! The models looked far much better and the contrats appeared.
My question is : why did I stop lining? (did you stop too?) I rememeber this technique being described in many WD (I started with issue 130) of old but now it seems only oldtimers use it. I also remember this technique being considered for low level painters at a time.

Is this something you guys still use a lot or just when needed. Do the good painters aroud here (there are a lot) use it too? Do you use it on rank and file only and avoid it on masterpieces?
What do you use? tubular point pens? thinned paint? thinned ink?

I'm aware that rediscovering black lining after 23 yeras of painting is somehow like rediscovering the wheel but nonetheless, I'd like to have your opinion on this.

Thanks
 

Harry

Moderator
We used to do black linning because we didn't have Devlan mud. :grin:

I still use it sometimes but i tend to be very dark brown linning for Brown, Very dark blue linning for blue and very dark green linning for green .... etc.
Same motivation for doing it just not so harsh.
The only time I would use Black linning is between colours and metallics ... seems to work. (Or I paint the whole area black, metallic up leaving a tiny line of black showing).
 

Asslessman

Member
Harry":3dkomz8v said:
We used to do black linning because we didn't have Devlan mud. :grin:

I believe you are right. but though I did add the usual tons of badab black and devaln mud, the contast was not the same as with a strong black line. My personnal washes (pva glue + ink + water) tend to make a better lining than citadel washes (though they are very useful for many other things imho)
Leaving the prime appear is just not something I can achieve unfortunately, I'm too meassy a painter I'm afraid. :?
Very interesting suggestion with the colour lining Harry, thanks a lot.;)
Looking at Dave King's posts, he happens to black line on some of his models with very thinned black inks.
Anyway, I'm not about to black line everything but it's proven a good solution to liven up some blurry areas because the devlan mud aplied on neighbour colours tends to blend them a bit.
 

axiom

Member
I have never done black lining for the sole reason that my hands are generally not steady enough and I tend to ruin an otherwise decent paint job. Washes have been a godsend for me - providing that delineation between different areas combined with easy application.
 

Asslessman

Member
axiom":1wb1k2n1 said:
I have never done black lining for the sole reason that my hands are generally not steady enough

Oh come on, you make such delightful hearts on the cheeks of your brats, don't try to make us believe you're hands are shaky ! ;)
Yeah, badb black and devlan mud are so useful and are so much more easy to use than inks. It's just this time, using it on every surface blended all colours together and my paintscheme needed some more contrast, I guess inks sometimes still are better for that purpose.
 

Harry

Moderator
My problem with inks over paints or washes is they seem to set in the recesses and fill up the details.
 

Asslessman

Member
Harry":3roj8k65 said:
My problem with inks over paints or washes is they seem to set in the recesses and fill up the details.

I totally agree, hence the need to thin them a lot indeed. Going in the recesses is what we want from inks right? ;)
I also have that problem with washes which can make small bubles which will leave a very dark area around recesses and no pigment in the deeper part. Now I always check after applying that I didn't left any but I sometimes miss some. As I tend to use multiple washes over one big wash, if I miss a bubble It competely kills the detail underneath because the multiple layers strenghten the bubble.
 

Ant4812

Member
I still use blacklining! I have a pot of chaos black here (one of only three acrylic colours I have), that I use for nothing other than blacklining. I thin it well down with straight surfactant (dish drops). I find it works better for me than humbrol enamel thinned with turps, which is my main media. I think it's just as usable on your bosses as well as rank & file types. Certain types of things like power armour, tanks & such where there's panels lend themselves particularly to blacklining.
 

Asslessman

Member
Ant4812":2kxbd1qp said:
I still use blacklining! I have a pot of chaos black here (one of only three acrylic colours I have), that I use for nothing other than blacklining. I thin it well down with straight surfactant (dish drops). I find it works better for me than humbrol enamel thinned with turps, which is my main media. I think it's just as usable on your bosses as well as rank & file types. Certain types of things like power armour, tanks & such where there's panels lend themselves particularly to blacklining.

Wow, enamel user? Stopped enamels when I accidentaly shook a pot and got enamel in the eye (a real mess to get rid off). :?
Funny thing is Orlygg just posted about Fraser Gray on his blog.

As for thinning with dish soap, it's actually something I always considered doing sometime but never actually tried. Do yo just need to add a tiny spot in your paint with plenty of water to get the effect? GUess I'll try that on grey primed models just to see the difference betwween this recipe and thinned ink (with added soap too). Thanks for the tip.
 

Ant4812

Member
In the eye! I've never done that but I imagine it was most unpleasant!
The stuff I use isn't soap, it's the stuff you add a few drops of to your water so your glasses don't dry with streaks on 'em. It's in with all the dishwashing stuff in the shop though. It thins the paint and makes it flow really well off the brush. Mine's blue in colour but I only use it with black for doing lining. I use it straight. You can also use Windex I think. I know a bloke who thins down acrylic paint with the stuff to do washes and glazes. He uses a drop of it the water. He says it's good for stopping the wash from 'puddling'. It breaks the surface tension of the water.
 

Asslessman

Member
Ant4812":2bmt06tk said:
The stuff I use isn't soap, it's the stuff you add a few drops of to your water so your glasses don't dry with streaks on 'em. It eliminates air bubbles and makes the paint flow really well off the brush You can also use Windex I think. I know a bloke who thins down acrylic paint with the stuff to do glazes.

It took me 20 years to realise how matt medium is useful so I won't wait that long to try flow aid and such. Definitely trying this as soon as I can. Thanks a lot, though not strictly on topic, this discussion is proving very useful. :grin:
 

ardyer

Member
The trouble with black lining is that it can provide too much contrast sometimes, as natural shadows are rarely black. I've got an army of 5th ed. plastic dwarfs where everything is black lined and it looks bizarre. And I think that is why it has fallen out of favor, so to speak. Personally, I use many of the ideas of black lining, just not with black. The other thing, I think, is that the techniques have been refined and are now often refereed to with other names, like Pin Washes. That is effectively black lining, just called something else.

That and what Harry said about Devlin Mud ;)
 

Asslessman

Member
ardyer":2gbwt4a1 said:
he trouble with black lining is that it can provide too much contrast sometimes, as natural shadows are rarely black.
Very true. I wouldn't use it everywhere, especially to seperate bright colours. I'll send some pics of the result on the models where I didn't do it and the ones where I did do it to have your opinion.

What you say about techniques makes sense, I hadn't thought about it this way. It's true most of the time nowadays, the effect is achieved in another way, but for the forst time, I was unhappy with the result and felt like going back to basics. I also greatly depends on your painting style. My khorne champions are worked with quite huge contrast with reds going from from strong carmine to bright orange. black lining on these (though very thin) works well, just like it does between coloured and metal parts. This may not be the case at all on my eldar pirates painted in bone and red colours.
 

Blue in VT

Moderator
I guess I go about this in a totally different way than you guys are talking about. I'm still painting the way I was in the late 80's...and use washes/ink very sparingly (though more and more as I learn more). that said I don't go back over a painted model and apply black lines....rather I Prime with black and leave a VERY thin black line between colors when I apply base colors and highlights....no need to go back if you are tidy with your brush on the base coat....which for me is the most tedious part.

these guys show this technique well IMO



Cheers,

Blue
 

Naagruz

Member
I find black lining a useful tool to help define areas of soft detail, like what you find on preslottas. Thinned oil paint works really well for this because of it's opacity & flow. You can also easily clean up mistakes with a brush dampened with turps.

Depending on the neighboring areas of color, some mix of black+burnt sienna is perfect for creating visual breaks where you need.
 

Asslessman

Member
Blue in VT":19wubxy1 said:
if you are tidy with your brush on the base coat...
You just put the finger on the main issue here... ;). when I paint, I'm like a right handed pig painting with his left feet and always have to clean up some mess, no matter the efforts and time. Your bone chaos dwarf proves that a black line on a light armour can work if done in deep areas. That's good to note.
From what I see, most of us black line in a way or another (with this name or another). This is actually very nice to get painting habbits form everyone with different styles on a specific subject.$

@Blue : Damn looking good chaos dwarves...
 

Willmark

Member
I use black lining on occasion.

Like Blue in VT I usually undercoat black. I've recently tried undercoating in white but it's a lot of work for mixed results IMO
 

Padre

Member
I use enamels, have done since 1980 or so. Never changed, and may never do so.

And as for blacklining, I know virtually no other technique. All my armies are extensively black-lined (except for a wash technique I used on my pygmies, and even they have blacklining on everything but their flesh). In fact my figures have gone exaggeratedly well beyond mere black-lining and into a style others have labelled 'cartoon': big black areas, and lining around everything, even in folds, between fingers, around eyes, etc. It makes for great mass-battle photos ('cos the individuals can be seen well) and occasionally makes for an interesting close up (certainly characterful). Like this picture from my current campaign thread ...

DeliberationB2_zps822af9b2.jpg


I could post more pictures of different ways I have done this.
 

Asslessman

Member
Didn't post it before but Padre, your blacklining is superb! , it really enhances the definition of your models and thecartoon effect you talk about is absolutely great. I like to see other technique and styles; there's always so much to get inspiration from. Any more pics would be welcomed !

Stone, hearing from such a painter as yourself you still use blaklining kind of reassures me. Though it is right the technique in itself has evolved to not just a black paint line, the principle remains. How do you do yours? is it thinned black ink or paint as most or more subtle methods such as those descrived before? I have t say I'll have a closer look at your models now.

Here is the result it gave on the Khorne champion I tried it on first (more to come soon btw) :

 

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