Undercoating

spiralpolitik

Member
Since I've started painting again I've been trying to come up with a good consistent way of mixing up the undercoat.

On the last test model I did I think I got the mix a little too thick so was wondering what other peoples water to paint ratio is for undercoating is ? I use mostly Citadel paints although I am planning on giving the Army Painter ones a try on my next set of tests.

(I can't use the spray on undercoat as I don't have anywhere I can use a spray can without making a huge mess. Plus I've always found brushing it on somewhat relaxing).

Hints, Tips and Comments most welcome.

A.
 
Asslessman

Asslessman

Member
If Spray is not an option , I think you want a very diluted paint here. Th eidea is just to get a very thinh unified coat for later layers to adhere to. I wouldn't be able to give a drop per drop ratio but the texture you're aiming for shall be the one of milk so that it doesn't hide any detail. If it's not enough, it's always better to add a seoncd layer afeter than to make a thick one first (true in most cases I guess).
 
Chico

Chico

Member
If spray is not a option (GW Black is my personal choice) Then I'd recommend GW Imperial Primer.

images


Imperial Primer is the perfect for when a spray undercoat might not be convenient (when it's raining outside, for example, or when undercoating a fiddly component). The paint's high concentration of pigment and special design means that it will cover metal, plastic and resin models with ease. Shake well and apply straight from the pot.
 
Asslessman

Asslessman

Member
oO you're the first person I know who recommends this stuff Chico. I only use mine when I've left some places with the spray and I wdon't want to get out again. There's something whith its texture I really don't like and once dry it is a bit too slippery to my taste. I find it tends to leave too much paint where I don't want and too little where I want some.

Maybe my pot is a bad one or maybe this is just a "marmite" kind of paint. I'll give it another try on some plastics just to be sure.
 
Chico

Chico

Member
Well I found all the problems go away after a really long shake, even longer then the VGC Red's. Plus it helps to have something in the paint pot as well (Ball, sprue ect)

I like it apart from the smell, but nothing beats GW Spray Primer in my mind and I've tried most.
 
Asslessman

Asslessman

Member
OK I'll try heavy shaking then, most of the new range has to be shaken like crazy anyway... :?
The consistency of it is a bit thicker than thinned paint so you might still want to use it light-handed Spiral.
 
theottovonbismark

theottovonbismark

Member
It's interesting that you use black paint from the pot Chico. I do the same thing. I used to undercoat with spray but I found that I was getting better coverage and finish by using a couple of layers of watered down black paint. I find it next to impossible to get an even coverage on models I convert as I like to use the space the figure occupies which leads to lots of overhangs which the spraying process misses. If I continue spraying too much I obscure details. Spray seems best employed on larger models such as tanks when it can give a lovely smooth finish. Sometimes if I mess up the spraying it comes out with a lumpy finish on the model, perhaps it is not mixed enough or it is too humid? I don't know.

To paraphrase Cheetor, the longer you paint the more you seem to come back to the way you used to work when you were 16 years old!
 
Chico

Chico

Member
For the fear of going slightly off topic (That's so not like me :lol: ) when I spray I do so in batches of 5 figures (Or 2/3 Cav/Bikes sized) in a tank box lid, first I spray everything I can see when the figure is standing up. I let that dry and then I turn the figures on the sides/back and spray everything I missed. I found that way I get best coverage and don't waste as much spray.
 
ardyer

ardyer

Member
There is a difference between "paint" and "primer" so I would recommend sticking with a primer. That said, I'd also recommend picking up a cheap airbrush and spraying it in that way. Much less mess that cans and much more control, too.
 

Timbor

Member
I use the vallejo game colour white paint-on primer when I don't have a chance to get outside, it works fine. I prefer spray priming, that way I can do a black/grey basecoat and then zenith prime white - gives a nice shading gradient and you can really pick out all the details on the figure easier. The plus side too is that bright colours are easier to paint with the raised white areas.
 

Timbor

Member
I don't think I water it down specifically, but I usually load an extra bit of water on my brush as I am painting it on, so that thins it somewhat. Better to keep your primer on the thin side anyway.
 
zoggin-eck

zoggin-eck

Member
For a few years all I've used is so called "background colour" from Jo-Sonja's. Cover well, dries quickly, flat finish and you get 250ml for less than the price of two citadel/vallejo/equivalent pots. I generally give two coats, since it often leaves the odd bit missed in the recesses. That, and I batch undercoat very quickly and roughly first, then going over again to finish. I get the feeling it scratches off a bit easier (the undercoat can when handled), but I've never had a finished model chip and I always spray flat clear coat anyway.

For white, I've been trying their normal titanium white, but the coverage isn't as good. I must find out if they do a background version of white.

black_paint.jpg
 
Naagruz

Naagruz

Member
Ever work with gesso? I've used black gesso when conditions were crap for my regular spray undercoat. It's solid stuff, you just need to be mindful of getting it on too thick.
It comes in White as well, but I've never tried it.
 
whiskey priest

whiskey priest

Member
Halfords Matt black spray for me every time. I usually do a load at once so that I've got plenty stuff undercoated in case of crap weather. Of no use to the OP but thought I'd say my bit anyway.
 

Runebrush

Member
A bit late to this party, but I've tried various things over time. Gesso does work strangely enough, but you need to be 100% sure there isn't any grease before you apply it (including finger grease) else it can peel off. I've heard good opinions of the Citadel Imperial Primer, it certainly seems to do the job, but you can only get a black version. My personal favourite is the Vallejo Surface Primers, they come in a range of colours (white, grey, black, reds, greens, browns) and can be used neat or from an airbrush. They're the same price as the Citadel pot, but you get 17ml rather than 12ml. Not had any real problems with them rubbing off with handling either. Biggest downer is that they're not the easiest of things to get out of the airbrush!
 
cheetor

cheetor

Member
I spray black with car paint and then paint on black from a pot at the painting table. I find that the most convenient way to get even coverage, particularly when Irish weather limits spraying in a number of ways. Heating up the can in a sink full of warm water is an absolute must though: it make a huge difference to how well the spray works.

I use black gesso on some terrain items and occasionally on a miniature that I cant spray for whatever reason, but I am very wary of a second coat of that stuff. It builds up fast in my experience (with the one, cheapo big pot of black gesso that I have ever used that is).

I had bad experiences white white gesso clogging very heavily and also proving hard to strip believe it or not, so I avoid that stuff. Its possible that the problem was connected to that particular brand I suppose, but it will be a while before I try that stuff on anything again.
 

ThomasHann

Member
Vallejo Polyurethane Primer is what you need.

It comes in various colours and of course in Black.
It is really excellent for brushing on . And if you ever get a airbrush it is even better through that.

Try it
 

craigm999

Member
I'll second the 'GW Imperial Primer' option.

used to use GW/Army Painter sprays, but due to the bad Scottish weather etc it became too much of a hassle to spray.

picked up a pot of primer in a paint set, gave it a go and haven't looked back.
it sometimes needs its consistency checked (clumping at the bottom of the pot and being very watery elsewhere, but nothing a good shake won't solve)

The coverage it leaves is nice and thin, it dries quickly and base coats stick well to it. used with old lead, plastic and resin with no issues.
 
Aiteal

Aiteal

Member
ThomasHann":xekshen7 said:
Vallejo Polyurethane Primer is what you need.

It comes in various colours and of course in Black.
It is really excellent for brushing on . And if you ever get a airbrush it is even better through that.

Try it
Click to expand...

I started using it very recently with a cheap 50 quid airbrush/compressor combo from ebay
Absolutely loving it, nice matt finish that if anything picks out details instead of hiding them like shiny black spray primers (car shop/army painter etc) seemed to do requiring a zenithal brown spray after the initial priming.
I've been using t to prime minis and hirst arts blocks and homemade building so far and I can't see myself switching to anything else now.
 
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