After the Oldhammer Weekend

I'm going to play devil's advocate now. Let's say we went to Vapnartak and decided to stage a battle that didn't involve old figures and didn't use old rules - other than e.g. having Oldhammer banners and leaflets on display, and generally being nice to people and explaining about our philosophy of gaming, wouldn't we pretty much look like any other fantasy/scifi wargame at the event?

I'm playing devil's advocate because I haven't wargamed at a show - I'm assuming though they dont play hard and fast by tournament rules at such shows?

But if we did turn up and played with old figures and/or old rules (which I would favour but that's just me) we would run the risk of stereotyping ourselves and potentially excluding people.

Oh, it's so confusing!

Warlord Paul":2qsh2iba said:

I'm also wary of making thie archeo-gaming concept appear to be the central tenet of Oldhammer.

Click to expand...

I think that's fair enough, so the question is: what can people take to other venues that is "Oldhammer" but not "archaeogaming"? Yes, there's an ethos, and I think flyers etc. would indicate that well, but in terms of what being shown off, it's harder to think of a way of demonstrating that oldhammer ethos (whereas "table full of 80s minis" is relatively easy to imagine).

So we just need to think about ways to bring oldhammer to life as a display/ participation game in ways that aren't visibly about archaeogaming. (Which doesn't exclude more archaeogaming-led displays as well, just that we'd do well not to restrict ourselves to those, probably)

These "cells" you're talking about are exactly what I had in mind. A bunch of players showing in clubs and local shows may be the best advertisment to show the real difference between our ethos and some other stuff. People feel more confident in mass, that's the way it is. Building such local communities can only help gather forces and draw them to big events as oldhammerday (wherever it shall take place).

What Warlord Paul said.

Yes, its the GM and the scenario that they put forward that will be the key here. It is this concept that needs to be pushed to the fore front, not the minis themselves. Of course, minis also attract people, especially interesting and well painted ones. Orcs Drift, should hopefully show this off on the Oldhammer Day.

Yup, sounds good to me.

I don't really follow the negativity towards the Foundry as a venue.
They have been so welcoming and have such good gaming facilities.
...and there IS a natural connection. (Whether you like it or not) ... They are the only other mini company to have old citadel miniatures in their catalogue. (EDIT: In fact they are the only company to have METAL citadel miniatures in there catalogue!!!!).
Why shouldn't they try and flog some stuff in exchange for offering us the venue FREE!!!
Where else can a newcomer to oldhammer buy MIB a Norse or Bretonnian army with original Perry Bro' Oldhammer minis.

Our annual meetings would need to get a good bit bigger before we started to attract other traders would't they?

Maybe I didn't follow but has it been stated that we are not allowed to trade stuff with each other or have a bring and buy sale? Have they said we can't have an exhibition?

It seems to be quite a positive mutual arrangement to me.

AFAIK exhibiting stuff is only limited to what space is available. I'm hoping to display some of my Blanche collection and if there is cabinet space available I'm pretty sure that won't be an issue. I know they are looking into getting lots more display cabinets to show their Foundry and old Citadel figures, but I dont know if they'll have them in time for the end of August.

I think we are allowed to trade OOP miniatures.

I'm sure I wrote some time ago how I felt the foundry if anywhere was Oldhammers spiritual home the connection is obvious for any caring to look but for any struggling the connection is mighty and avenging. I don't think this is BS, perhaps a spiritual home would be a better way to put it, it is also somewhat irrelevant as OH will exist with or without a spiritual home. However having Bryan want to attend and host us is pretty special, just like Gygax's interest in Dragonsfoot. If the event goes as well as I expect an annual meeting at the foundry really is a no-brainer. Note not THE annual event, AN annual event.

If a bunch of people want to set up an Oldhammer event with all new minis and SoBH where it is the ethos of Oldhammer on display only then they should go for it. If it proves popular then everybody wins. Of course the ethos of SoBH is very similar to the ethos of Oldhammer. I have a feeling that events that take using the old rules and old style miniatures as the point of reference will have more appeal amongst the community and if these prove popular all well and good too.

I think planning for Salute and trying to put on a regional event would probably be more than enough for all of us.

Hi chaps

Just to clarify: Foundry are okay with the fact that we will be trading and buying/selling OOP figures. I've asked the community (on the oldhammer blurb - I'll update that as the status of things becomes clearer) that we don't sell any in production figures (from any manufacturers) out of respect to Foundry.

Also, they have no problem with exhibitions of art or figures - even now they are planning their space to enable us to display any art.

As regards the actual discussion, the big limiter for any of these things being discussed is always going to be money. The main draw that Foundry has is that we're not paying for anything they're laying on. I'm assuming we're unlikely to find another venue as suitable for free. That the Ansell family have a link to the archeo-gamer school of oldhammer is just an added bonus.

Warlord Paul":3i3wvszd said:

Here is an idea to play with.
...The sale of merchandise is permitted within reason...

Click to expand...

Any reason why sale of merchandise is limited? From my limited perspective of the GW hobby, being from beyond UK, what always struck me as characterful in the WD's of yore was the proliferation of different games and systems... you could find all sorts of goodness, and even the ads were interesting, the play by mail games, Gurps, TSR stuff along with GW stuff...

I would think all sorts of merch on display and for sale would provide a more holistic hobby experience?

Erny":tqvthb5e said:

.... If the event goes as well as I expect an annual meeting at the foundry really is a no-brainer....

Click to expand...

I agree with everything you said ... but I especially agree with this.

Lets start with this.

If folks want to do other stuff ... that's great ... but lets do this 'as well as' not 'instead of'.

I don't know anyone at The Foundry or have a relationship with them beyond buying minis from them but from the very first contact with them over this event they seem to be falling over themselves to make us welcome ... when it was only going to be a few of us there was talk of cake. ... or was it bacon sandwiches? for crying out loud. This goes beyond them wanting to sell a few blisters. I didn't get a sense there was any other agenda beyond wanting to offer us an 'old skool welcome' to an 'old skool venue'.

I don't know about anyone else but I will be going planning to spend some money with them by way of 'thanks for being so welcoming'.

Warlord Paul":c2y4bldk said:

I very much want to see the return of the characterful 1980's ethos to a show table but I'm also wary of making thie archeo-gaming concept appear to be the central tenet of Oldhammer.

Click to expand...

Late to the party on this one (office computer lost all my bookmarks!) and my opinion is probably doesn't matter terribly much since I'm over in the USA, but I would think that is an easy fix. In any "planned event" (e.g., running a scenario at Salute), make sure to include a mix of figures from different ranges/manufactures and include some newer GW figs. For example, if you have an orc hero, you could easily use a current GW orc, relying on the scale difference to make him look that much bigger and meaner than his underlings. Further, in the write-up on the event that the players receive, list the manufacturers of the models used.

Plus, such a plan reduces the risk of valuable OOP models being swiped

Harry":3qe9z9gv said:

I don't really follow the negativity towards the Foundry as a venue.

Click to expand...

There isn't any negativity, it's just about seeing it for what it is, and opening up the discussion for what happens in the future.

If the Ansells hadn't reached out to Orlygg, said, do you want to run some games at our shop, then Orlygg opened up that offer to get a few more tables going, then I don't think the Foundry Day would have happened at all, at least not this year, and I'm sure the event will be fantastic. If the community had decided to run an event independently, then I think the venue would have been more open. Of course it would have cost money (venue hire etc.) and been a lot more effort to organise.

Harry":3qe9z9gv said:

Maybe I didn't follow but has it been stated that we are not allowed to trade stuff with each other or have a bring and buy sale? Have they said we can't have an exhibition?

Click to expand...

Yes. When Tony Hough suggested putting some work up, he was told "We're going to keep it just a few guys having a few games" - nothing about space (they have walls I assume ) to which Tony replied "OK I'll bring stuff along in a portfolio if anyone is interested." which is very cool but not ideal. The problem with having no central communications channel is that I don't know where I read that or who made the decision to say no. It's on a blog somewhere. IF that situation has changed can someone let Tony know so he can prep. And if the idea hand't been poo-pooed at an early stage we could have invited other people to exhibit (Miller, Nicholson, Chalk, etc.)

Same with the trading, it was mentioned somewhere that trading is verbotten IF that situation has changed then the event organisers should be making that clear somewhere central.

But would Foundry welcome Hasslefree with open arms to sell they not-fem-kaleb-daark? No. Would they welcome Black Hat to sell their directly competing paints (same as the old Citadel Colour BTW) which BH sell for £1.50 less? Nope. Should Oldhammsters welcome Hasslefree to sell not-fem-kaleb daark and Blackhat with Coat D'Arms paint at an Oldhammer event? Yes, I think so.

I suppose the real question is whether "we" want that kind of old-school "Games Day" event with multiple vendors and whether we can actually organise it ourselves, or whether something like Salute is more in-keeping with the Spiritus Vetus Malleus than a space run by a single vendor.

Saying "do other things" is fine, of course people can do other things. But if the efforts are geared towards supporting a single, big yearly event then that's where most of the energy will go. I think that the shape of that event should be up for reasonable discussion.

Erny":321ddgjf said:

However having Bryan want to attend and host us is pretty special, just like Gygax's interest in Dragonsfoot.

Click to expand...

Gary has a long thread where he's posting about his game, answering questions and interacting with the fans. AFAIK Bryan hasn't signed up here and isn't involved in the community like Gary was at Dragonsfoot. He'd be more than welcome to join us tho.

Zhu Bajie":2tk3t9zw said:

Erny":2tk3t9zw said:

However having Bryan want to attend and host us is pretty special, just like Gygax's interest in Dragonsfoot.

Click to expand...

Gary has a long thread where he's posting about his game, answering questions and interacting with the fans. AFAIK Bryan hasn't signed up here and isn't involved in the community like Gary was at Dragonsfoot. He'd be more than welcome to join us tho.

Click to expand...

I don't think you are comparing like for like in terms of Gygax's interest in Dragonsfoot and the Ansells supporting Oldhammer. Regardless of whether or not Bryan chooses to sign up to this forum I know he, Marcus and Diane are doing a lot to support our event behind the scenes, and I think people will be suitably impressed at the end of August.

Zhu Bajie":kn1o8lsl said:

..... Yes. When Tony Hough suggested putting some work up, he was told "We're going to keep it just a few guys having a few games" - nothing about space (they have walls I assume ) to which Tony replied "OK I'll bring stuff along in a portfolio if anyone is interested." which is very cool but not ideal. The problem with having no central communications channel is that I don't know where I read that or who made the decision to say no. It's on a blog somewhere. IF that situation has changed can someone let Tony know so he can prep. And if the idea hand't been poo-pooed at an early stage we could have invited other people to exhibit (Miller, Nicholson, Chalk, etc.)

Same with the trading, it was mentioned somewhere that trading is verbotten IF that situation has changed then the event organisers should be making that clear somewhere central.

But would Foundry welcome Hasslefree with open arms to sell they not-fem-kaleb-daark? No. Would they welcome Black Hat to sell their directly competing paints (same as the old Citadel Colour BTW) which BH sell for £1.50 less? Nope. Should Oldhammsters welcome Hasslefree to sell not-fem-kaleb daark and Blackhat with Coat D'Arms paint at an Oldhammer event? Yes, I think so.

I suppose the real question is whether "we" want that kind of old-school "Games Day" event with multiple vendors and whether we can actually organise it ourselves, or whether something like Salute is more in-keeping with the Spiritus Vetus Malleus than a space run by a single vendor.

Saying "do other things" is fine, of course people can do other things. But if the efforts are geared towards supporting a single, big yearly event then that's where most of the energy will go. I think that the shape of that event should be up for reasonable discussion.

Click to expand...

Agreed.
and I was not aware of the other discussion you have read. My impression was it was all very laid back.
Although it goes without saying that other business's flogging stuff was never going to be part of the deal.
My impression was that this was just a few blokes getting together to play a few games.
Initially my impression was there would only be about 30 of us.
If we had another venue would these numbers attract someone like Black Hat to turn up for the day on the off chance of shifting a few pots of paints. (and a few of their lovely Dwarves).
I feel like we would need to grow a bit before we outgrow the foundry and need somewhere else where we can invite other sellers.
But then maybe the 'Oldhammer scene' is growing faster than I imagine and hundreds of folks will turn up at the foundry and whilst a few blokes might always like to go back to The Foundry to play a few games, the main Oldhammer day may need to be somewhere else. But that all seems a way off to me at the moment.

Harry, you're right, we're probably not big enough to pull off a show of our own, which is why something like Salute, which is already vendor-neutral would get my vote for the "Big Event" that the community puts their shoulder to over an event that is owned and controlled by a single manufacturer.

There are good points being made alround but in terms of the thread title perhaps we should concentrate on what happens in the immediate aftermath of Oldhammer Weekend?

I for one would like to set up or join an East Midlands Oldhammer group with a view to meeting on a regular basis.

How about we get a list together (Forum post) of where everyone is located and is updated regularly? That we we'll all know who's near us and will make splitting into ''cells'' a bit easier in the short term.

But my view is that we are all to few in number and spread out to have that many local groups just yet.

Citadel Collector":203iyq73 said:

I agree, but just to reiterate - does everyone think that Foundry should be the basis for the main annual event, given its facilities and its central location? Not forgetting its historical associations. Assuming everything goes as planned in August of course.

Click to expand...

You derailed the thread, no chance of steering it back now it's all gone wonky!

All we need now is Chico to mention a nudist resort as a venue and we're off.

WRG forming a cell, Skarsnik and Old Lead set up a nice map:

http://skarsnikandoldlead.blogspot.co.u ... inder.html