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Everything related to Bring Out Your Lead 2013, at Wargames Foundry in Nottingham

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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:32 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Some of the perceived problems you highlighted never occurred to me. I must be an optimist after all. My own perception of the event was to have fun. I did do a WH 1st edition reenactment game trying to use only stuff I had in 1985, but that was just a one off experiment. And my and my mates got several rules wrong, though some could not be got right. But upcoming weekend I thought was not 'elitist'.

- I have only met a couple of the guys once at a show, and don't really blog so don't really know them from there.

- I am bringing an army of pygmies (non GW, from the 2000s I think, with later GW bits incorporated, and zombies/zombie pirates (later GW figures and non GW ones too)

- I do not know the 3rd ed rules. Although I suppose I did once they have got buried under too many subsequent editions rules. I intend to read through the 3rd ed rules and hope that'll be enough to awaken at least some (very) old memories. I intend to flick through the rules as and when. TBH I still struggle with 8th ed rules!

- The scenario I intend to run is about joining in with what ya got (though there is an attempt to have forces that fit storywise somehow in the jungle infested southern continents). Enter as and when, grab some loot, and try to escape with it.

Do these comments also reassure?
Last edited by Padre on Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 6:02 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Personally, the issues you describe are caused by the appalling culture that seems, to me anyway, surround tournament gaming of any sort. Obsessions with legality. having the 'correct' miniatures to play etc. tedious beyond belief. Sadly, this is the world that many GW inspired wargamers live in, and unless you were 'truly there man' in the 1980s you won't have a clear understanding on the mindset that Oldhammer seeks to promote (I know I am generalising here a bit).

For me, The Oldhammer Weekend is about having fun. Talking shop. Seeing other people's armies (classic 80s or not) and generally mixing with people who until now have just been words on a screen. Oh, and hopefully a beer or two! Perhaps, so many gamers depend on the formal restrictions on recent times and the free and easy nature of the old school is a bridge too far?
Warhammer is dead! Long live Third!

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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 8:51 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

I would totally echo the previous two comments. Having a laugh, meeting people who I've only "met" in forums, gawping at all the lead candy. It's the polar opposite of rigid, rules-driven formality. As my old buddy and mentor Patches O'Houlihan puts it:
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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:25 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Well I was dithering and then decided not to, for completely different reasons, a conspiracy of lack of hobby funds and Inlaws and CAVE EVIL which accounts in part for the first.

Models
I think the archeogaming contingent is to blame for "I need a 2000pt 80s Citadel army to play", this was never really the intention, BUT on the other hand those wanting to see a wider diversity of miniatures need to get their fingers out and show them in an Oldhammer context.

I was planning on an:
*Alternative Armies Retained Knights squad for the RT game: http://www.alternative-armies.com/Retained_Knights.htm
*Mad Knight Runequest broo for the bulk of the Beastmen for the RoC game: http://www.madknight.co.uk/broo-c-275_319.html

Rules
I don't want to speak for Coop or Orlygg who are running the bring-and-battle games, but IMHO players do not need to know the rules, that's what the GM is for (no pressure guys!) So long as you've got an idea of the turn sequence, and what movement, weapon ranges and relative strengths are, and how to roll dice and read the tables on a playsheet, the rest is really down to the GM to make sure it runs smoothly, or however they like using the rulebooks as a guide. Thinking strategically, tactically and heroically, not trying to game the rules is what it's about.
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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 9:40 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Zhu Bajie wrote:*Mad Knight Runequest broo for the bulk of the Beastmen for the RoC game: http://www.madknight.co.uk/broo-c-275_319.html


Thanks for sharing - some nice stuff on that site. I must continue to shake off my Citadel fanboy persuasion... ;)

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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:08 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Well, as a newcomer to this here oldhammer thing, I don't find the whole thing intimidating at all, although I was very glad someone clarified that complete familiarity with old ed rules is not going to be essential! Obviously if people think that you have to know chapter and verse of 3rd ed to get in that will limit the crowd a bit...

I think the only thing I am finding a teeny bit intimidating is the standard of some of the painting I've seen on here! I've never been that good a painter, but I'm going to take it as inspiration to try and up my game for the occasion. I just don't want to drag down some potentially wonderful looking gaming tables!
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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:18 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Hi WP

Actually, I hadn't thought about the oldhammer scene as being intimidating, but I can see where your friends are coming from. It is a pity that the perception is one of elitism, and I suppose that most of the oldhammer scene is being driven by many of us primarily frothing over the earlier 'pre-modern GW' figures and general feeling.

I'm not sure much can be done about that now (in time for the event in August), but I do think its a good challenge to us as a community. Given that we've not run an event before, I don't mind too much, as I think 50% of this will be purely about putting real faces and names to avatars and allowing us to see in real life the armies we only see in pictures. In a way, it is an intimate gathering for a small sub-set of the wargaming community and perhaps for the first one, we should be a little exclusive - if for no other reason than to limit the damage if it all goes wrong :)

Ultimately, the entry barrier everyone needs to get over is the realisation that as a player, one is sick of the current tournament/rules pack driven style of play poisoning our hobby and wants to play a different sort of game. There isn't much we can do to help someone make the choice outside of what we're already doing - blogging about a different approach and trying to tell that story to as many people as possible. In your case (WP) you've run a few scenarios on your blog using current edition figures that still tell a fantastic story and draw a clear line between tournament play and narrative play. If that's not enough to encourage your friends, I'd suggest that they're not yet prepared to change the way they play.

As for knowledge of rules - one should fully expect to have the game be an exciting and otherwise arbitrary spread of rules from 3rd edition to 7th edition and from RT through to 5th. to be honest, as long as you've got the new (old?) turn sequence and the rules for magic/psychics down, you should be okay.
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Gaj

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Always interested in contacting any gamers interested in Warhammer Fantasy 3rd Edition!
Also interested in any old 80's Citadel figures you may want to get rid of.

http://warhammerforadults.blogspot.com
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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 10:25 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

I think the archeogaming contingent is to blame for "I need a 2000pt 80s Citadel army to play", this was never really the intention, BUT on the other hand those wanting to see a wider diversity of miniatures need to get their fingers out and show them in an Oldhammer context.


Guilty as charged M'lud! Good point though Zhu - my motivation is definitely the old minis but that isn't necessarily Oldhammer. Looks like Davey from the Marienburg Gazette will be bringing along a rather spiffy new model chaos army.

I'm currently reading and rereading the 2nd ed. rules so that it all goes smoothly, but I must admit I haven't done much GMing in the past. I'm looking for a nice relaxed atmosphere where we can all enjoy the Orc's Drift scenarios and have a bit of a laugh in the spirit of Oldhammer.

Thanks for posting this up Paul - hadn't realised this might be a problem. I wonder if a few blog posts of a similar nature on our respective blogs might dispel a few reservations folk have about coming down?
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Post Wed Jul 31, 2013 11:03 pm

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

I've encountered similar problems of understanding when it comes to narrative games while helping to run a Necromunda campaign over the last few months. Most of the players have sort of started to grasp the concept that the game isn't balanced (though we have tried to mitigate that through some house rules), and that its more about the ongoing storyline we created and the misadventures of the individual characters represented by the ganger miniatures.

It's hard to discourage players from instinctively aiming for the 'most efficient' setups or most cost effective weapons. And some of them still try to win at all costs, which isn't what narrative games are about!

I'm fully intending on coming to the very first Oldhammer weekend, and I'm trying my best to put together a small Khornate warband for the Realm of Chaos bring and battle game. But I'll also have a squad of my Crimson Fists marines for the RT game too. :)

I'm going to advertise the Oldhammer event on the forum my club uses and try and mention it as much as possible while I'm actually at the club. Most gamers at my club though play mostly current edition 40k and FB, with a smattering of other games like Dystopian Wars. So I don't expect much interest. I'll try anyway though. The guy I played my RT mission games with would almost certainly be interested, but he's sadly emigrating at the end of the month. :(

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Post Thu Aug 01, 2013 8:07 am

Re: Making the Oldhammer weekend less intimidating.

Warlord Paul wrote:Hi everybody.

I have been moved to write a few words about the Oldhammer weekend because I have found it surprisingly difficult to sell the idea to my gaming buddies. The main concerns seem to revolve around the perceived 'entry requirements'. Whether the people in question have had access to the online forum/blogging community or not it seems to be an automatic assumption with everyone I've spoken too that you would need to have a large, beautifully painted, 3rd edition army consisting only of period miniatures simply in order to 'qualify'. Another concern is not knowing the rules, while one person was put off by the relatively intimate number attendees (feeling like they would be gatecrashing somebody else's party). I have loads of people around me who should be all over this event and yet I will be travelling down the M1 on my lonesome.



I don't have large painted 3rd edition army .... I have a few Amazons, a few Norse, a half painted Chaos Warband and a Halfling Blood Bowl team. I don't know the rules .... not 2nd or 3rd edition, or Realm of Chaos ... have not played a game of 3rd edition since ... well, 3rd edition. :D Don't even know the rules to Blood Bowl that well. I don't know anyone else .... in fact the main reason I was going was to meet some like minded fellows.

I will happily play a game of Talisman with you ... so you won't be on your lonesome once you get here.
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