Solitaire 22.6. (page 2)


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Post Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:28 am

Solitaire 22.6. (page 2)

I Am the Black Wizards! Erm...

It has been a long time since I posted here, but it seems I am returning to Old Citadel stuff after some endeavours to different miniature worlds. I do not have any big projects related to Warhammer going on at the moment - just individual figures, my dwarfs are on hiatus - though I am planning to paint the old Harlequins at some point.

I am working on an old Chaos Sorcerer as an experiment with water soluble* oil colours. The base is not finished and I might do a few tweaks here and there, but nothing too drastic. Also no matt varnish yet.

Image

My last experience with oils dates back about 25 years or so, and thus the medium was not totally unfamiliar (except that the oils I used back then were not water-based…). I did read some tutorials but decided to go like I felt anyway :P This resulted in some trouble, but I think I also learned something: e.g. that 1) pre-painting some shades and colours with acrylics helps, 2) blending et al work differently from acrylics-based painting, 3) wiping the excess paint as suggested in most tutorials is one way to go, but these can be used in thicker layers for different effects, 4) oil painting requires more pre-planning than painting with acrylics and 5) these are not as durable as acrylics.

In this figure I would have liked to use stronger contrasts in certain areas, especially the robe, but it is rather time-consuming to do at this stage. With these oils it is practical to paint all shades/colours transitions in one go instead of layering- The drying time is about a day or two and several layers do not look that good. I also learned to use water instead of medium somewhere between the colours :)

All comments are welcome!

* EDIT: Corrected "water-based oil colours" to "water soluble oil colours".
EDIT 2: Upgraded broken photo links.
Last edited by pahvivalmiste on Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:05 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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Post Thu Mar 23, 2017 8:59 am

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

It looks great so far, but please forgive my ignorance, I always thought the definition of oil based paint was that it wasn't water soluble?

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Post Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:05 am

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

Hello Pahvivalmiste,

That's a comeback in style! It looks plain gorgeous my friend. I say your experiment was fruitful, hope to see more of this kind. Do you plan to continue with oils or go back to acrylics?

And what a cool choice of miniature to boot. For somebody who loves the old Chaos stuff like me I would sure love to see this develop into a full fledged warband... wink wink nudge nudge! Do you intend to paint more chaos at some point?
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Post Thu Mar 23, 2017 9:23 am

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

Mr Papafakis wrote:It looks great so far, but please forgive my ignorance, I always thought the definition of oil based paint was that it wasn't water soluble


I think it could depend on whether you use the dictionary definition of "oil" (not water-soluble) or "oil painting" (oil acts as a binder) as a conceptual basis of your classification. They're marketed as "water miscible oils" or "water soluble oils" - it seems I used the term "water-based", which is wrong. I will correct that to the first post.

Gallivantes wrote:Do you plan to continue with oils or go back to acrylics?

And what a cool choice of miniature to boot. For somebody who loves the old Chaos stuff like me I would sure love to see this develop into a full fledged warband... wink wink nudge nudge! Do you intend to paint more chaos at some point?


This was an experiment, but I think I will use these water soluble oils every now and then. They do require more work than acrylics and I still do not feel comfortable with them (this was the first figure I painted). I actually have some Chaos figures (Familiar, Warrior, Dwarf, Thug, Beastman, Centaur) which I've been planning to paint in coherent style - that could constitute a warband? :)
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Post Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:20 am

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

pahvivalmiste wrote:I actually have some Chaos figures (Familiar, Warrior, Dwarf, Thug, Beastman, Centaur) which I've been planning to paint in coherent style - that could constitute a warband? :)

Definitely! The term warband is a very forgiving one as there is no strict definition... just a loose term that usually means a smaller gang or group as opposed to a full fledged army. Often somewhere around 5-30 models or so as opposed to the 100 and upwards that people build their armies from. The term seems to have become quite popular for many systems to date, from old Warhammer to Frostgrave, Dragon Rampant, Song of Blade and Heroes, Mordheim etc etc. So again, there is not one "right" way to do it but most anything goes and still is viable for gaming. And of course, if you are only interested in collecting/painting and maybe suggesting a narrative background to your warband then it is entirely up to yourself.

Your seven figures would make a great compact warband with a lovely range that people here would drool over, and the cool thing is you can add to it as you see fit over time.
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Post Thu Mar 23, 2017 10:29 pm

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

What a wonderful paintjob - I get a somewhat John Blanche-esque vibe from it :)

I would love to see a small warband of different kinds of Chaos models painted in this style!

By the way, is there any specific advantages of using water-soluble oil paints instead of acrylics? Do the colors become more deep maybe?

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Post Fri Mar 24, 2017 8:44 am

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

Well I’m just experimenting so I can’t write a comprehensive analysis about the differences. Observations so far are like…

Working time is considerably longer compared to acrylics (with retarder).
+ Blending with thick paint, especially with diffent colours, is relatively easy, but the effect might sometimes be little coarse.
+ One can wipe off the paint if something goes wrong (can be used for effects).
+ One can paint an area, like robes, from start to (almost) finished stage in one go when using thick paint.
+ Painting very small details was easier (at least for me) than with acrylics. This is also due to oil’s other properties (or I have gotten better with details, haven’t painted them much lately).
+ Brushes last longer and one does not have to worry about soaking them in water all the time.
_ Drying time is long compared to acrylics: handling the figure while painting requires care as the paint easily comes off AND one can’t paint extra layers too early.
_ I have not tried layering all that much. With thin layers the drying time is probably an issue compared to acrylics if one wants to work fast.

Colours
Colours are very bright and deep, but one could probably achieve similar effects with acrylics. It would probably take longer, though. Water soluble oils kind of invite one to do deep, bright and vibrant colours (one reason I wanted to try them). No metallics.
+ Mixing different colours is easy
_ Some colours do not cover very well (can be mitigated with several layers or undercoat with acrylics)

Other attributes
Acrylics and water soluble oils behave differently so one needs time to adjust.
+ There are all kinds of interesting products to discover (all oil painting mediums can be used with water-soluble oils)
+ They’re sexy (I mean it’s oil! And one feels like an artist!)
_ They require more time and preparation than acrylics (dropper bottles & wet palette for the win). If I have 15 minutes to do something I could paint a hat, wash or something with acrylics. With oils I wouldn’t bother.
_ You have to put ”too much” paint on the palette.
_ They’re messy.
_ Durability – one or two layers of varnish help, but they’re not as durable as acrylics.
+ OR _ One needs to plan the paintjob more in advance than with acrylics.
+ OR _ They're thick - it's good when one wants the paint to stay in place, but not so good when one needs it to go into recesses. When adding medium they'll get too fluid! This can be addressed with layers of course.

All in all.. acrylics are much easier to use than water-soluble oils. I think ”real” oil colours would be even more difficult compared to acrylics (need for turpentine etc.). My motive for using them is that I wish I could get results that look different from acrylics in an interesting way – which is why I am not totally satisfied with this figure. I should have been more extravagant and bold with colours.

I was going to give up my experiments with oil after a couple of attempts (wash and skin), but decided to press on… as I had invested in the colours (I might do some canvas painting with them too). When I progressed with this figure it become kind of addictive. I took the oils out every time I could :)
So… I will use these water-soluble oils from time to time, but for faster and easier work I will stick with acrylics. Maybe I will try some combination techniques (e.g. some colours/effects may be better in oil and some in acrylics – why not use both?).

I'll consider the warband idea. I also have some old Eldar Harlequins I thought could go well with oils.
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Post Fri Mar 24, 2017 10:50 am

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

Great looking mini. I used oils to paint a Reaper Frost Giant a few years ago as I remembered the historex painting books I read as a child were all using oil paints (on 54-100mm historicals, mainly Napoleonics). They worked great for blending on such a large miniature and with liquin added the drying times weren't too long, if I were to paint more giants or trolls with large areas of unbroken skin I would definitely do more oil work. I would hesitate to use them on a regular 28-35mm scale mini though, just because the areas available for blending don't seem large enough to me. You've proved with this guy though that a 'middle way' can produce an amazing effect, it's absolutely brilliant.
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Post Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:05 pm

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

Thank you for a very comprehensive description of the pros and cons of using oil paints. I think I might try that out at some point. Probably not with figures for my army, but with some single models that needs to look a bit more "fantastic" - like a wizard or a dragon - or maybe a diorama.


pahvivalmiste wrote:My motive for using them is that I wish I could get results that look different from acrylics in an interesting way – which is why I am not totally satisfied with this figure. I should have been more extravagant and bold with colours.


Well, I think that you have achieved some very nice effects on this model. The color of the robe in particular looks very deep :)
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Post Sat Mar 25, 2017 4:51 pm

Re: Chaos Sorcerer slightly WIP

LilBroGrendel wrote:What a wonderful paintjob - I get a somewhat John Blanche-esque vibe from it :)

I would love to see a small warband of different kinds of Chaos models painted in this style!

By the way, is there any specific advantages of using water-soluble oil paints instead of acrylics? Do the colors become more deep maybe?

I've been exchanging with water soluble oils for weathering on foam terrain as I don't really want to apply white spirits to blend on top of foam.
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